38spl, 158gr lead SWC, Lee dipper

[vaalpens]

I am planning on loading around 50 rounds of 158gr lead SWC bullets in 38spl. The cases are primed with a combination of new and pulled primers, so the loads do not have to be perfect, or even very accurate, but they must be safe. It will purely be used for plinking. An added requirement is that this time I just want to measure the powder with a single dipper. No trickling or weighing afterwards. I need to trust the dipper.

The loads will be shot using a Ruger SP101 357mag revolver, so by using 38spl loads, there will be some safety build in on the high side, since it could bleed into the 38spl +P range.

Deciding on a powder/load/dipper takes a bit of work. First I picked a few powders and used Alliant and Hodgdon load data to come up with a MIN and MAX loads. I then used the listed VMD and calculated the cc's needed for the MIN/MAX loads. Based on this calculation I picked a dipper size, and then weighed 5 dipper charges to get the weighed min/max. This weighed min/max results were then compared against the load data MIN/MAX range.

Following are the results from this test:


Based on the above results, you can see that the HP38, Tight Group and W244 weighed min/max results were within the load data MIN/MAX range.

My analysis of what I see is:
HP38: Both min and max are on the lower end of the load data range, so maybe not my pick to use, I'll make it #3
Tight Group: Both min and max are on the higher end of the load data range, should be good to go, but I'll make it #2
W244: Falls nicely in the middle of the load data range, so I will probably go with W244 using a .3cc Lee dipper. My #1.

For you who uses lee dippers or your own dippers, do you have a dipper/powder combination you like to use for 38spl?

Any comments regarding as always will be appreciated.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

100% concur with your conclusion. W244 is the way forward.

 

[Charlie98]

Actually, I kind of wonder about WST... going to the 5cc dipper. It dropped well enough. But... although I've never used W244 in the .38, it does seem to check all your boxes.

FWIW, all I ever used to load 158's was Unique... it worked really well there. I think the next dipper is a .7cc (if memory serves...) and that might put you at or over max with Unique.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I am planning on loading around 50 rounds of 158gr lead SWC bullets in 38spl. The cases are primed with a combination of new and pulled primers, so the loads do not have to be perfect, or even very accurate, but they must be safe. It will purely be used for plinking. An added requirement is that this time I just want to measure the powder with a single dipper. No trickling or weighing afterwards. I need to trust the dipper.

The loads will be shot using a Ruger SP101 357mag revolver, so by using 38spl loads, there will be some safety build in on the high side, since it could bleed into the 38spl +P range.

Deciding on a powder/load/dipper takes a bit of work. First I picked a few powders and used Alliant and Hodgdon load data to come up with a MIN and MAX loads. I then used the listed VMD and calculated the cc's needed for the MIN/MAX loads. Based on this calculation I picked a dipper size, and then weighed 5 dipper charges to get the weighed min/max. This weighed min/max results were then compared against the load data MIN/MAX range.

Following are the results from this test:
View attachment 1180308

Based on the above results, you can see that the HP38, Tight Group and W244 weighed min/max results were within the load data MIN/MAX range.

My analysis of what I see is:
HP38: Both min and max are on the lower end of the load data range, so maybe not my pick to use, I'll make it #3
Tight Group: Both min and max are on the higher end of the load data range, should be good to go, but I'll make it #2
W244: Falls nicely in the middle of the load data range, so I will probably go with W244 using a .3cc Lee dipper. My #1.

For you who uses lee dippers or your own dippers, do you have a dipper/powder combination you like to use for 38spl?

Any comments regarding as always will be appreciated.

My personal load with a 158gr LSWC is 4.8gr of Unique (.5cc dipper); that’s over your listed max and I am not recommending it, but I have been loading it for a very long time based on loading data in the Lyman’s 45th Ed. My dipper with my powder throws 4.6-4.8gr using my method of dipping.

 

[Charlie98]

My personal load with a 158gr LSWC is 4.8gr of Unique

I actually loaded 4.2grn Unique under a 158grn LSWC... for my mom and her 3" S&W model 60. It worked really well.

My load is... was... 4.7grn Unique... which is at max. It was a nice load out of my 4" 686.

 

[Blue68f100]

I am planning on loading around 50 rounds of 158gr lead SWC bullets in 38spl. The cases are primed with a combination of new and pulled primers, so the loads do not have to be perfect, or even very accurate, but they must be safe. It will purely be used for plinking. An added requirement is that this time I just want to measure the powder with a single dipper. No trickling or weighing afterwards. I need to trust the dipper.

The loads will be shot using a Ruger SP101 357mag revolver, so by using 38spl loads, there will be some safety build in on the high side, since it could bleed into the 38spl +P range.

Deciding on a powder/load/dipper takes a bit of work. First I picked a few powders and used Alliant and Hodgdon load data to come up with a MIN and MAX loads. I then used the listed VMD and calculated the cc's needed for the MIN/MAX loads. Based on this calculation I picked a dipper size, and then weighed 5 dipper charges to get the weighed min/max. This weighed min/max results were then compared against the load data MIN/MAX range.

Following are the results from this test:
View attachment 1180308

Based on the above results, you can see that the HP38, Tight Group and W244 weighed min/max results were within the load data MIN/MAX range.

My analysis of what I see is:
HP38: Both min and max are on the lower end of the load data range, so maybe not my pick to use, I'll make it #3
Tight Group: Both min and max are on the higher end of the load data range, should be good to go, but I'll make it #2
W244: Falls nicely in the middle of the load data range, so I will probably go with W244 using a .3cc Lee dipper. My #1.

For you who uses lee dippers or your own dippers, do you have a dipper/powder combination you like to use for 38spl?

Any comments regarding as always will be appreciated.

WST also meets your requirement. I use WST for my mouse fart loads in 357 mag, loaded down to 38 spl loads or lower. It's like shooting a 22LR, very enjoyable.

 

[tominboise]

I use dippers a fair amount, and always dip and then strike the top off with a business card. I also dip 5 charges into the scale pan and take the average as a check against my desired charge weight.

Another tool I use a fair amount is the RCBS little dandy powder measure, which is basically the dipper system turned into a powder measure. Handy for short runs like you are doing.

 

[AJC1]

I have a set of spice spoons that are stainless that I use in conjunction with a scale, so that may be an option, and shop built dippers made with pistol cases trimmed to the perfect length may also be just perfect for your need. The tail wags the dog in this senerio because I choose the powder and then conform the dipper to my need.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have a set of spice spoons that are stainless that I use in conjunction with a scale, so that may be an option, and shop built dippers made with pistol cases trimmed to the perfect length may also be just perfect for your need. The tail wags the dog in this senerio because I choose the powder and then conform the dipper to my need.

I have a spreadsheet of dippers, powders and charges I update when I buy new powders/replace empties. I use a calibrated 1CC measure I got from hospital supply to measure and calculate the VMD for my powders when I change lots. It works to get me in the ballpark but nothing replaces a scale.

 

[vaalpens]

100% concur with your conclusion. W244 is the way forward.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[vaalpens]

Actually, I kind of wonder about WST... going to the 5cc dipper. It dropped well enough. But... although I've never used W244 in the .38, it does seem to check all your boxes.

FWIW, all I ever used to load 158's was Unique... it worked really well there. I think the next dipper is a .7cc (if memory serves...) and that might put you at or over max with Unique.

Thanks for the comments. Some of these could go higher, but I would probably error on the low side if necessary. The W244 at .4cc I have a .4cc dipper) will result in about 4.9gr of W244 and the .7cc Unique about 5.5gr. which is above the Alliant +P max.

 

[vaalpens]

My personal load with a 158gr LSWC is 4.8gr of Unique (.5cc dipper); that’s over your listed max and I am not recommending it, but I have been loading it for a very long time based on loading data in the Lyman’s 45th Ed. My dipper with my powder throws 4.6-4.8gr using my method of dipping.

Thanks for the comment. The 4.8gr is within the Alliant +P range, so it should be good. Unique does not do well with the dipper. It probably depends on how the flakes are aligned,

 

[vaalpens]

I actually loaded 4.2grn Unique under a 158grn LSWC... for my mom and her 3" S&W model 60. It worked really well.

My load is... was... 4.7grn Unique... which is at max. It was a nice load out of my 4" 686.

Thanks for the information. I think Unique will be safe, but it is not very consistent when using a dipper, or any volume measuring tool.

 

[vaalpens]

WST also meets your requirement. I use WST for my mouse fart loads in 357 mag, loaded down to 38 spl loads or lower. It's like shooting a 22LR, very enjoyable.

I have loaded these bullets with WST before, and I like them in WST. With a .5cc dipper I should see around 3.8gr, which is still at the high end, but should work.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the comments. Some of these could go higher, but I would probably error on the low side if necessary. The W244 at .4cc I have a .4cc dipper) will result in about 4.9gr of W244 and the .7cc Unique about 5.5gr. which is above the Alliant +P max.

FWIW a .4CC dipper will throw 3.3-3.4gr of WST (my lot #) which is the Hodgdon’s/Winchester starting load for the 158gr LSWC they tested. I’ve tried it and prefer to save my WST for 200gr PRN .45ACP.

 

[vaalpens]

I use dippers a fair amount, and always dip and then strike the top off with a business card. I also dip 5 charges into the scale pan and take the average as a check against my desired charge weight.

Another tool I use a fair amount is the RCBS little dandy powder measure, which is basically the dipper system turned into a powder measure. Handy for short runs like you are doing.

Thanks for the information. My dipping weight seems to be lower than the calculated weight, so I just dip it, shake it a few times until it settles, then use it. The ES for all of them were .1 to .2, with Unique a .3 the exception. That was expected since Unique normally doesn't measure that well.

 

[vaalpens]

I have a set of spice spoons that are stainless that I use in conjunction with a scale, so that may be an option, and shop built dippers made with pistol cases trimmed to the perfect length may also be just perfect for your need. The tail wags the dog in this senerio because I choose the powder and then conform the dipper to my need.

Thanks for the information. Conforming the dipper to the powder is the correct method, but in this case I am just trying to use something that is available, and find the best match. Just trying to keep it simple.

 

[vaalpens]

I have a spreadsheet of dippers, powders and charges I update when I buy new powders/replace empties. I use a calibrated 1CC measure I got from hospital supply to measure and calculate the VMD for my powders when I change lots. It works to get me in the ballpark but nothing replaces a scale.

Thanks for sharing your data. I normally use the published VMD, but if I find it does not match my results, then I just calculate my own VMD. I normally just use the dippers for my load development. I use it in con junction with a scale and RCBS trickler.

 

[vaalpens]

FWIW a .4CC dipper will throw 3.3-3.4gr of WST (my lot #) which is the Hodgdon’s/Winchester starting load for the 158gr LSWC they tested. I’ve tried it and prefer to save my WST for 200gr PRN .45ACP.

I get 3.0gr to 3.1gr, but I assume if I just scoop and use, then the weight will be closer to what you have stated. I all comes down to how you use the dipper.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I get 3.0gr to 3.1gr, but I assume if I just scoop and use, then the weight will be closer to what you have stated. I all comes down to how you use the dipper.

The lot also makes a difference.

 

[vaalpens]

The lot also makes a difference.

That is true, thanks!

 

[Charlie98]

It probably depends on how the flakes are aligned,

What? You don't stack the powder flakes up in a row before dropping them in the measure? ...like chocolate chip cookies?

I think Unique will be safe, but it is not very consistent when using a dipper, or any volume measuring tool.

It's true, Unique doesn't measure as precisely as some other powders. What I've found is, in general ammo, it doesn't really make that much difference at the target... Now, if you are trying to load an accuracy round, you wouldn't likely use dippers, anyway. I load buku 9mm, .41, and .45 rounds with volume-dropped charges of Unique without worries.... but, it depends on your tolerance for variation.

My dipping weight seems to be lower than the calculated weight, so I just dip it, shake it a few times until it settles, then use it.

I have the Lee slide rule thingy for the powder dippers... it is rarely, if ever, close to what really drops from them. You are doing the right thing... measuring your own drops, and going forward.

 

[JohnB-40]

Unique is a powder I use a lot of. The only problem for me is running it through a mechanical powder measure. I made up a set of dippers for my favorite pistol loads using said powder. I check every 10-15 loads on my 505 and they are very consistent. My stash of Unique has the same batch number.

 

[vaalpens]

What? You don't stack the powder flakes up in a row before dropping them in the measure? ...like chocolate chip cookies?



It's true, Unique doesn't measure as precisely as some other powders. What I've found is, in general ammo, it doesn't really make that much difference at the target... Now, if you are trying to load an accuracy round, you wouldn't likely use dippers, anyway. I load buku 9mm, .41, and .45 rounds with volume-dropped charges of Unique without worries.... but, it depends on your tolerance for variation.



I have the Lee slide rule thingy for the powder dippers... it is rarely, if ever, close to what really drops from them. You are doing the right thing... measuring your own drops, and going forward.

Thanks for all the comments. These will not be for accuracy, but purely something that I can load quickly with a dipper, and just enjoy the shooting.

 

[vaalpens]

Unique is a powder I use a lot of. The only problem for me is running it through a mechanical powder measure. I made up a set of dippers for my favorite pistol loads using said powder. I check every 10-15 loads on my 505 and they are very consistent. My stash of Unique has the same batch number.

View attachment 1180668

Those are some nice looking dippers. I like the simplicity of the dipper, and would at some point like to have a nice load for each cartridge where I can safely use a dipper.