3rd World Gun Cleaning?

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Jackal

Jackal

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After shooting/cleaning my new AK-74 for the first time, it got me wondering how people clean these guns in 3rd world or battlefield circumstances? After only 4 hours, mine developed rust from the corrosive ammo, which prompted a hose down with oil/water/scrubbing/drying to prevent further rusting. How do fighters in Africa, terrorist cells, jungle fighters, etc maintain their weapons? Do they just let them rust up and beat on them, or do they maintain them?
 
A rag with a bit of motor oil or gas on it will clean just about anything to tolerable standards. Motor oil off a dipstick will provide enough cleaning and lubrication for the average gun.

Those Somali pirates have a real challenge, basically getting their AKs dunked in seawater routinely. But they seem to know the essentials.
 
Pretty much the same way our soldiers do in combat, with their t shirts and whatever oils and solvents they can find.

Don't labor under the illusion our forces get an unlimited supply of cleaning materials. It's improvise and overcome nearly every step of the way. In the Reserves, it's common to bring your own stuff paid for out of your own pocket. The funds managers don't program the amount of money it takes to actually maintain weapons, they just ask for whatever is more than last year. What they actually buy and then distribute is something else entirely.

It's been going on since guns were invented. If the system worked, when Ordnance pushed ammo forward to the unit, it would automatically include the cleaning supplies and oil needed every time, right? X thousand rounds of ammo needs X number of bottles of CLP, patches, and rags per hundred soldiers. Nope. Ain't happening. There is a reason why the Army had to put out a reg stating soldiers could no longer use WD40. They aren't getting anything out of the system.

It's not a third world issue, it's a soldier issue, and bottom line, the soldier has to fix it.
 
On a sad related note, the first time I fired my new (to me) Mosin 91/30 earlier this summer, I ended up not getting around to cleaning it for about 3 weeks afterwards (totally forgot the ammo I was firing was probably corrosive). At this point it's safe to assume whatever corrosive ammo can do to the bore has been done. After cleaning it, the bore doesn’t really look any worse than it did before to me (kindof hard to see with such a long barrel even holding directly up to the light). There’s a tiny bit of rust on the bolt face now, but otherwise everything else on the gun looks to be in pristine condition.

So… any idea what I should expect the next time I shoot the 91/30? Will the accuracy be significantly worse? Is there any serious danger of overpressure I should be aware of?

As the OP implied, most people who carry these guns fire corrosive ammo and don’t clean them thoroughly or often. On one hand I’m afraid I’ve ruined any potential for accuracy this rifle would have had, but on the other hand I’m thinking I probably didn’t give it any more abuse than it was meant to take on a regular basis. Thoughts?
 
So… any idea what I should expect the next time I shoot the 91/30? Will the accuracy be significantly worse? Is there any serious danger of overpressure I should be aware of?
Click to expand...

It's a Mosin, you'll be fine.

Cleaning guns in 3rd world countries or war zones isn't really much different than it is in the US. Clean with your choice of solvent, lube with your choice of oil/grease.

The main difference in the US (and likely other developed countries) is that we have companies that market exclusively to gun owners. Check out the MSDS of some gun solvents, there's no magic incredibly effective solvent that is ONLY used for guns, it's all common chemicals. For instance, the majority of Hoppe's is Kerosene and Ethanol, both of which are relatively easy and cheap to find.
 
Shoe lace or leather strip with knots tied in along the length. Dip in oil, pull thru barrel a couple of times. Rag and oil for the rest.
 
Tirod pretty much has it nailed, but read this:

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=8

4 hours is not enough time to rust anything with the use of corrosive primers (ammo) alone. You are not dealing with a China doll. If it is actually an AK-47; it is a time-proven tool that will operate for a long, long time. The photos of the Somali rifles should give one an idea of how much abuse an AK-47 can take. And I would like to bet the AK-47 rifles the Somali's could afford were slap wore out by the time they got Em.

I have a Chinese SKS, late 60's as I recall, and it still has a world war left in it. My brother ruined a Rugger 7.62 ranch rifle with corrosive primed ammo; took at least 15 years to do it in the dry air of So Cal. I'll bet he didn't clean it but once every couple of years shooting hell out of it.

I would not use WD-40 on a firearm. I have seen WD-40 flash rust steel overnight - I swear I have no clue what is in WD-40, but it can react real weird when used with other products. I don't use it for much anymore... Keep a can in my tackle box in case I got to pull a hook out of myself; works good as an antiseptic on rusty hooks... go figure. The only bloody thing I like about the stuff anymore.

On to the next Caper,
CarolinaChuck
 
Gasoline for a solvent, and motor oil as a lubricant.

Automobile dip-sticks make perfect oilers! ;)
 
Shoe lace or leather strip with knots tied in along the length. Dip in oil, pull thru barrel a couple of times. Rag and oil for the rest.
Click to expand...

This ^^ nailed it. I saw this a few times in Afghanistan. I've also seen them use gasoline as a solvent. I'd say that 2/3's of the guns we confiscated were in pretty bad shape.
 
You also have to consider the number and cost of guns in those countries. I bet it isn't difficult to find a replacement if a rifle stops working. Grab another off the pile, repeat until you find one in decent shape. With some basic tools and knowledge, you can refinish those sorts of guns by swapping parts around until you get a fully functional set of weapons.
 
This is why the AK is what it is, and why it is the weapon of choice in most if not all third world countries. Price, function, simple reliability.
 
You also gotta love the seat belt strap used as a sling in the pics above. That's working with what ya have.
 
Just noticed the mixed ammo in the background of that second pic. looks like even that got rusted.
 
Take a metal GI Ammo can, fill the bottom with oil, pour in diesel or gas; take the weapon apart toss in the parts and let soak a few minutes, clean with a brush, put them on a poncho to dry in the sun. The sun will dry the gas fast and leave the oil giving it a nice oil film on all the parts.
 
I remember reading an article years ago in which the author, who had served in the French Foreign Legion back in the late '70's, wrote that they used kerosene and whatever rags they had on hand to clean their weapons. I don't recall any mention being made of any gun oil or lubricants being available.
 
The Afghans I was stationed with often used their beards as a rag, if they were that long. Or part of their clothing. For the cleaning liquid, some used diesel fuel, which we had plenty of. Cooking oil and regular gasoline was common as well.
 
I've seen kerosene, gasoline, WD40, Easy Off, motor oil, CLP, even bottles of bore cleaner with 1944 dates. My personal preference these days is Dexron-Mercon and Lubriplate.

It's been reported a carbine course instructor used a personal hygiene lubricant to demonstrate that if it's a lube, it works in the AR.

What surprises me is that this thread hasn't gone to 20 pages with a 100 other suggestions of what can be used. There are some really long threads out there about it.

Use their beards? 'Splain's why it's called A**itstan.
 
Kerosene and diesel fuel, huh? Well that explains why the last batch of ammo cans I bought out of Ft Bliss had a lot of cans with kerosene and diesel fuel left in them. :rolleyes:
 
Jackal said:
After shooting/cleaning my new AK-74 for the first time, it got me wondering how people clean these guns in 3rd world or battlefield circumstances? After only 4 hours, mine developed rust from the corrosive ammo, which prompted a hose down with oil/water/scrubbing/drying to prevent further rusting. How do fighters in Africa, terrorist cells, jungle fighters, etc maintain their weapons? Do they just let them rust up and beat on them, or do they maintain them?
Click to expand...
isn't your barrel chromed and if not it is very important when buying a 74 being the cheap ammo is corrosive
 
CarolinaChuck said:
Tirod pretty much has it nailed, but read this:

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=8

4 hours is not enough time to rust anything with the use of corrosive primers (ammo) alone. You are not dealing with a China doll. If it is actually an AK-47; it is a time-proven tool that will operate for a long, long time. The photos of the Somali rifles should give one an idea of how much abuse an AK-47 can take. And I would like to bet the AK-47 rifles the Somali's could afford were slap wore out by the time they got Em.

I have a Chinese SKS, late 60's as I recall, and it still has a world war left in it. My brother ruined a Rugger 7.62 ranch rifle with corrosive primed ammo; took at least 15 years to do it in the dry air of So Cal. I'll bet he didn't clean it but once every couple of years shooting hell out of it.

I would not use WD-40 on a firearm. I have seen WD-40 flash rust steel overnight - I swear I have no clue what is in WD-40, but it can react real weird when used with other products. I don't use it for much anymore... Keep a can in my tackle box in case I got to pull a hook out of myself; works good as an antiseptic on rusty hooks... go figure. The only bloody thing I like about the stuff anymore.

On to the next Caper,
CarolinaChuck
Click to expand...
I do not understand some guys experiences with WD-40 .I lived in S florida for a while and in the garage my tools rusted. WD-40 soaked rags I wrapped around my tools and they never rusted in that high humidity. it is not the very best but I cant see something rusting in a few hours with it on
 
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