4-Shot .357 Any Kiddo or Felon Can Now Legally Purchase and Carry Unconcealed

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If he can legally buy and carry a .357 capable of taking down a moose, I'm happy for him.
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Lets be reasonable people.

I'm an airgun fanatic, so I know that you don't need nearly as much energy to take game as many hunters think.... but this thing is a .38special at BEST, and it gets a little weaker ever shot.

Moose is WAY out of the ballpark as far as I'm concerned - as is comparing a 300lb or less feral pig to a 1,100lb - 1,500lb Moose. :rolleyes:
 
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ATC,

Re: big deal background check
No biggie whatsoever. Took us ~4 minutes for us to run my two FBI's, and i was out the door with revolvers in hand.

Re: why needed?
They are obviously in the same class as "fire"(read burning powder)arms. This is because they're more powerful than any .22, .25, or .32 handgun available.

- MN
 
Aaron,

Re: what am i worried about?

Outlying cases, knuckleheads, and headline stories in a couple years that read something like, "4 People Killed by Teenager with Airgun".

- MN
 
Maple City,

i'm not so sure. from a physics perspective what we are talking about at close range, even with a .38 hollow point, is ~10 to 11" of penetration with sizable wound cavity.

Close range, that should do the trick if followed by careful tracking. .

- MN
 
I know it's just a movie...

Slightly off topic, but just for fun:
Just wait until those clever felons learn that cap and ball revolvers aren't even considered firearms
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The movie Salton Sea (2002) with Vince Donofrio and Val Kilmer depicted felons with black powder muzzloaders in holsters on their hips. (Just in case you wanted to rent an old movie that's kinda cool.)



Back on topic...

That type of air tank (scuba tank) to recharge every 4 shots, just doesn't seem convenient.

Ammo note: It requires lead bullets WITHOUT bullet lube. That doesn't seem unusual, but unless you cast your own it's actually a chore to order bullets from a bullet manufacturer without lube. They'll certainly do it, but it's a special order. Along with refilling the scuba tank, it just seems like more incovenience than fun. It's the kind of toy (I use that term loosely) that I would buy and shoot 10 times, then leave it in the closet forever.
 
ants,

Except typical S.C.U.B.A. tanks are filled with very precise gases and mixtures.

A simple 3000 psig air compressor should take care of an airgun tank, wouldn't it? Wouldn't even need to be "clean" air.

4 shots @ 3000 psig. Much higher round capacity, lethal as well, if firing at lower pressures.

So perhaps one should instead be worried about headlines reading, "10 People Killed by Teenager with Air Gun". . .

- MN
 
No background check needed for a muzzle loader is there?

This is a cool rifle, though one that certainly seems doomed from the start. When I saw they had a .357 air rifle I thought they took their discovery type pcp and upsized all the needed parts, while keeping it near the same price point. Then the electronics were included and they tried to make it tactical with a rail, collapsing stock, and ar style pistol grip. Blah. Keep it. A $500-$600 version of their Discovery/Marauder line upsized for .357? I'm in line tomorrow. A $1300 version with some useless computer that could be replaced by a simple pressure gauge? No thanks.

About the worries of felons/minors. Tighten that tin foil hat a little more and keep it in the oven another 10 minutes at 375*. It's almost finished baking.

Joking aside, I have no fears of a felon or minor causing problems with this item. I have much greater fears of what a minor finds unlocked in the average house and what the felon is willing to do with an illegal firearm. No need to worry about something this expensive, unique, complex, and rare.
 
And it would be so awesome if felons self-limited themselves to only four shots while they're at it?!
I deem this troll topic a success!
 
MashieNiblick,

I still don't get what your fascination is with a background check.

At present Air Rifles aren't regulated by the Federal Government.

Is it your position that they should be??

If that is your position, why in the world would you come on a firearms related forum and advocate firearms type restrictions on items that the federal government doesn't even recognize as firearms.

I am always amazed and saddened at the number of anti gun people we have in the firearms community and you sir are one of them.

I shudder to think what would happen to our freedoms if people like you had their way with their beliefs.

I have often wondered how places like California, New York, New Jersey etc end up with the restrictions they have reference firearms.

Now I know how it happens.

Good luck with your campaign to bring firearms restrictions to the Airgun community.
 
benzy2,

Except muzzleloaders don't come with magazines with 20 round capacities, and muzzleloaders are not suppressed to .22 decibal levels. . .

- MN
 
Doktor,

I find myself disheartened by your limiting perspective.

I am a fervent firearms supporter.

Is this a firearm? Obviously not. It does not burn powder.

In terms of destructive power is it in the class as firearms? Obviously yes, and in fact it is more powerful than many pocket pistols, most notably the .380 auto.

Should a Daisy Red Ryder require a federal background check? Obviously not, but this weapon is of an entirely different class and different caliber.

Where should the line be drawn. That i can not personally answer, but obviously it can not be left up to air gun manufacturers, and this air gun manufacturer in particular.

This weapon is much more powerful than many handguns restricted only to qualifying adults whom must, must pass a federal background check to purchase.

This extremely powerful weapon does not only have a 20 round capacity, but it can be purchased by anyone and it seems as if it may legally be carried by anyone unconcealed as well.

i am not sure where you live, but many people in many areas may certainly be concerned.

I am sorry, I must respectfully disagree, and will not stoop to silly internet fallacious overgeneralizations and insults.

Good day, sir.

- MN
 
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In 2009 more people were murdered with a blunt object than were murdered with a rifle of any type. More people were beaten to death using no weapon at all than were murdered with a rifle of any type. Just over 5 times as many people were stabbed to death than were murdered with a rifle of any type (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html).

And you're worried about a $1,300 air rifle that requires accessories like scuba tanks to use? :confused:

Honestly it'd be more logical to argue for background checks on knives. Of course, that's assuming you believe background checks actually accomplish anything (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm) ...
 
Where should the line be drawn.
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Why should there be a line??

If your a fervent supporter of firearms why do you wish there to be restrictions on items that are not classified as firearms?

Do you wish to promote the same restrictions on Bow's/Crossbows??

They are many times more deadly than any man portable air rifle I can think of; do you wish there to be restricted access to these items as well?

To use your words from the quote from above "where do we draw the line"?

You really need to embrace the fact that you are one of these people that believes that firearms are for you and people who think like you and restrictions on items you don't use or like or think people should have are ok (god given rights be damned).
 
happygeek,

If all lethal blunt objects would cost $1300 i would still find myself being more concerned with potential blunt object mortalities, however the thought of a rifled $1300 scoped air gun with 200 yard range, 20 round capacity, 9mm diameter hollow point bullets, capable of delivering .38 special + P + energy, that requires a simple garage air compressor and tank to charge, that is readily accessible, that can be carried openly, unconcealed, yet requires no background check to purchase. . . that i find a bit ironic. . .

- MN
 
ATCDoktor,

This is silly. I think we are in agreement. I really do.

Find me a 20 shot rapid fire bow that can be fired with minimal to no experience or training, by nothing more than light trigger squeezes, or a crossbow or a muzzleloader with a 20 round autoload capacity, and then we'll talk.

If you want to buy a Sig P250, G17, or similar capacity autoloading rifle in my state- more power to you. If you can get in and out of the LGS in ~4 minutes including FBI background check that's great as well. If you want to carry the handguns concealed with a CHL- great for you.

If you want to purchase them without an FBI background check and carry unconcealed in public- That's where we may begin to disagree.

If you happen to live in a state with open carry provisions- That's great, too, more freedom to you, but i would still like for you to pass a FBI background check prior to.

- MN
 
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I'm honestly at a loss as to your reasoning.

It must be absolutely terrifying for you to go anywhere outside your home; all those people of unknown character legally conceal carrying [with no permit] quick to flip open knives [that they didn't need a background check to buy].

I'm surprised this thread hasn't gotten closed yet.
 
In Louisiana we can openly carry any weapon we want outside of a few specifically restricted municipalities and zones.

To the point, weapons (or arms) are well within the rights of free citizens to posess, carry, and deploy if needed. Felons, in regards to firearms ownership, are not free citizens, rightly or wrongly, as the case may be. As has been pointed out, however, they can buy crossbows, cap n' ball revolvers (that can be carried concealed), air guns of any sort, knives, brass knuckles, baseball bats, crowbars, toy airplanes, fireworks, and all sorts of other goodies. They can buy gunpowder and make bombs, and if we restrict that, then they can just use gasoline or a host of other propellants. Dangerous people are not going to stop being dangerous because you put a background check on anything considered to be a weapon. Just sayin.
 
In a world full of concerns, this one just....well...isn't one for me. The practicality factor for criminal use just isn't there, and I see this as no more of a threat than any other firearms. Criminals break laws...that the definition of the word criminal basically.... so do you really think a law would dissuade any criminal from obtaining one if he or she really wanted one? It doesn't work with "real" firearms....it doesn't work with drugs.....it doesn't work with kiddie porn....so why would it work with airguns? Rewriting the laws to include provisions for this sort of "gun" is a waste of time and effort. If and when there becomes a rash of juveniles or felons using these oddities as weapons in our streets, the issue can be examined further. However, I find laws based on hypothetical "what ifs" to be a waste of time and a product of a so called "nanny state" or those that endorse the idea of one
 
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Davek,

Your point does not change the fact that minors can legally purchase and openly carry this new class of off center hit, lethal weapon. . .

- MN
 
Geckgo,

i was unaware of Lousiana having open carry provisions for its citizens.

Is that with or without a carry license?

When i took my Texas CHL course we were instructed that the Texas CHL was accepted in Lousiana.

No problem with open carry provisions here, but as said before this type of weapon seems to fall into the class of high round capacity 9mm firearms with respect to round capacity and energy delivery.

i do agree with the limitations imposed upon felons that you mentioned, btw. In Texas, a waiting period is imposed post successful probationary completion. I am in favor of that as well.

What's a bit scary is that this weapon may be purchased by minors along with felons and seems as if it may be carried openly by both at any time.

- MN
 
Considering the variety of things that can easily be used with fatal consequences, adding one more that is expensive, awkawrd to use, and not all that commonplace doesn't concern me. With the laws untouched, I'm guessing in five years, there will still be more murders committed with Louisville Sluggers and automobiles than airguns....but that doesn't mean I'm advocating banning baseball bats or cars. I just don't think we need to legislate each and every item that can be used with fatal results. If rampant airgun crime becomes commonplace, maybe some regulation of some sort could be implmented. However, the chicken little approach of "the sky is falling! the sky is falling" in regards to the introduction of this airgun is unnecessary. You criticize HappyGeek for making assumptions, but isn't that what YOU are doing? Assuming every 16 yr old out there having a bad day is gonna steal mommy's credit card to buy a $1600 air rifle and an air compressor and then go on a shooting spree??? Isn't that a bit far-reaching and well...presumptuous?? Quite frankly, any 16 yr old likely already knows where to obtain a gun for far less than $1600, and someone unstable enough to go on a shooting spree isn't going to think twice about obtaining a gun by theft. Your theory that these airguns are going to bring us back to the days of the wild west is flawed and completely unfounded at this point. What...EXACTLY....would laws regulating airguns, even of this nature, accomplish? Do you really think someone unstable enough to use a gun of any kind in a criminal fashion will go unarmed simply because they were denied the opportunity to buy an airgun? Gun control laws are pointless in that they have no effect on criminal behavior and simply create more hoops for lawful purchasers to jump through.
 
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