4 year old shoots and kills 3 year old brother in Utah

[12 Volt Man]

This story gets to me, as I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. The wierd part is that the mother Mother was asleep and did not wake up when the gun went off in the house. That sounds a little fishy to me.





Accidental Shooting Kills Three Year Old
Nov. 18, 2003
Samantha Hayes Reporting

A West Valley neighborhood is in shock after a morning gunshot ended the life of a 3-year old boy. Police say it happened when his 4-year old brother got hold of their mother's gun.

Police say the mother was asleep at the time and didn't hear anything. She told police the gun was locked up in a safe, but her son was able to find the key.

Tuesday afternoon fire trucks and medical help filled the streets of the West Valley neighborhood. But police say the three year old inside the house had been dead for a little while. Police attribute the delayed report to the 4-year old's inability to fully understand what happened.

Capt. Steve Sandquist, West Valley City Police Dept.: “But when he did finally wake up his mother and tell her around 12:00, he made some pretty profound statements to her that his brother had been shot."

His mother is a night security guard and says she was asleep when her son found the key to the gun safe, unlocked it, and took the loaded gun.

Capt. Steve Sandquist: â€It appears the two children were playing guns as children do."

Adam Walker, Neighbor: “I just think this is just one more experience that we need to get the trigger law here in Utah as soon as possible."

Marla Kennedy with the Gun Violence Prevention Center says we are underestimating our children's ability to find and use guns.

Marla Kennedy, Gun Violence Prevention Center: “There's been study after study that shows you can educate a child until you are blue in the face not to touch a gun, but children by their very nature are not developed enough to stop that impuse control."

Kennedy says at least 17 other states have some kind of Child Access Prevention law.

Marla Kennedy, Gun Violence Prevention Center: “Right now there is no specific language in Utah's law to do that."

Again this year a bill is before the Utah Legislature to make negligent storage of a firearm a criminal offense. Experts say trigger locks can be used to prevent firing of some guns, but it’s best to always separate the ammunition and the firearm and lock up both in different places.


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Again this year a bill is before the Utah Legislature to make negligent storage of a firearm a criminal offense.

If this story happened as they say, it sounds like she had it stored.

 

[TallPine]

Adam Walker, Neighbor: “I just think this is just one more experience that we need to get the trigger law here in Utah as soon as possible."

If it was already locked in a safe, how the hell would that do any good?

 

[skyder]

My wife and I were discussing this. Her question was whether or not the mother actually locked the safe, as she told the police. If so, where was the key kept and why was it not in some place unavailable to the kids? For that matter, why did the kids even need to know about the key? A safe is a much safer way to store a gun than any trigger lock, and, if it is done properly, it is as close to childproof as anything can be.

 

[JPM63US]

My nickle says she came home tired and just put the gun down on a table instead of locking it up. Wonder if the police with investigate that possibility of just line-up with the gun control advocates that we need another law?

JPM

 

[12 Volt Man]

Another article.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tot accidentally kills brother



By Matt Canham
The Salt Lake Tribune

WEST VALLEY CITY -- A game involving a toy gun turned deadly Tuesday when two small boys retrieved a loaded 9 mm semiautomatic Glock from the family's safe.
Ryker Lambert, 3, died after his 4-year-old brother accidentally shot him in the face at close range, West Valley police say.
"Everything leads us to believe this is just a tragic accident," Capt. Craig Black said.
The two boys were unsupervised between 8:30 a.m. and noon, Lt. T. McLachlan said. Their mother, Reagan Lambert, works as an armed night security guard. Her shift ended at 4 a.m. When their father, Ryan Lambert, went to work as a tow-truck driver at 8:30 that morning, she returned to bed.
The 4-year-old boy woke her up at about noon to say Ryker had been shot. She didn't hear the gunfire.
Reagan Lambert called dispatchers at 12:06 p.m. from her home near 4500 South and 4100 West, but police don't know what time the shooting actually occurred.
Paramedics tried to revive the boy, but he was already dead, Black said.
Police found a toy cap gun lying next to Ryker's body in the family's dining room.
"One had a cap gun, the other goes to get another gun," Lt. Jim Crowley said.
The boys used the key to open the nearby locked safe and took their mother's work weapon, but officers have yet to determine where the family kept the key and how the boys got it.
The 4-year-old told officers he was holding the gun when it went off, police said.
Officers took the distraught mother and other family members to the West Valley City police station for interviews and to allow detectives to investigate the home. Family members declined to comment.
The family stayed with relatives Tuesday night.
Medical examiners removed the body at about 2:45 p.m., walking through a yard littered with small bikes with training wheels and toy trucks.
"This was a tough scene to see," Officer Cliff Chase said.
Neighbor Lani Ete was not surprised to hear about the accident.
She has called police and social workers at the Division of Child and Family Services (DCFS) to complain about the children's lack of supervision. Other neighbors also said they saw the children running in the street by themselves regularly.
"This was an ongoing problem that has gone on as long as they have been in the neighborhood," Ete said. She called police three times and DCFS once. Neighbors say the family has lived in the area for about six months.
DCFS spokeswoman Carol Sisco said the division has fielded two calls. A caseworker had been assigned, but DCFS didn't find enough evidence to support the claims.
"If we are going to remove a child, we can't do it just because of allegations," she said.
[email protected]

Other accidental shootings in Utah

* 12-year-old Jake Owens of South Jordan, who was killed on Sept. 8 after being shot in the head by his 14-year-old friend while cleaning a neighbor's garage.
* 14-year-old Caleb Herrera of Salt Lake City, who was killed Sept. 19 as he and a 13-year-old friend were handling a handgun.
* A 15-year-old Salt Lake City boy who was sent to the hospital in critical condition on June 19 after being shot in the head by another boy as the two were playing with a pistol.
* A 14-year-old Milford boy who accidentally shot himself in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver Nov. 12.
* A 16-year-old girl who was shot in the arm in Honeyville on Nov. 14 after a shotgun her 17-year-old friend was playing with discharged.

 

[AJ Dual]

I agree, sounds fishy.

I wouldn't put it past a 4 y.o. to aquire a key and unlock a safe, (sounds more like a lockbox or metal security cabinet), but it seems more unlikely.

I too wonder if someone is lying about where the Glock was, if the "safe" was locked, or the key just left in the lock etc.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Tragic but....................No new gun laws will eliminate the lack of parental skills or common sense. Maybe we can enact some new laws against stupid people.

 

[Gunner45]

I was watching the news with my wife last night when this story came on. As soon as it was over my wife turn to me and ask me if my guns are locked up. I told her yes they are secured with combination locks.

It took me 15 min to calm her down and convice her that our five year old can't just find a key and get to my guns.

The whole thing just makes me sick. But what I find most sickening is the way the Gun grabber parasites have used it to push thier agenda.
If it really happend the way the mother says it did, the gun was locked up and no new law would have made a differance.

Sorry about the spelling here, I am just to pissed off to think today.

Gunner45

 

[George Hill]

This is very fishy. I am not buying this.

 

[El Tejon]

Something is rotten in Denmark or Utah, at least this version.

I hope this is only the preliminary investigation and this is the bs the coppers gave the media jackals.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Fishy. Time to fingerprint the key and safe.

 

[P95Carry]

Fishy indeed ...... there should be no way - no way - that a kid could or should be able to find a key .... period!! Sure, IF key found the kid could easily continue from there. I vote for kitchen table, or purse etc.

The one thing I think any kid should be shown at an early stage .. is a demonstration of a gun's destructive potential ... not suggesting they start shooting too early but .... I wonder if this kid had the slightest idea of what could happen ...... sadly I suspect not, at all.

One exploded water melon is usually something that easily brings home the damage potential.

Oh of course ... the VPC will make all the mileage they can on this!

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

The one thing I think any kid should be shown at an early stage .. is a demonstration of a gun's destructive potential

The report of most guns would make any kid **** their pants. Hopefully not scare them into ANTI status when they grow older.

 

[P95Carry]

The report of most guns would make any kid **** their pants. Hopefully not scare them into ANTI status when they grow older.

Agreed Carlos ......... a consideration for sure.

I think the distinction for a kid needs made re the ''bang'' factor ... which is loud noise but maybe they realize little else. That can be done with hearing protection etc so as to be safe and not scare too much .. plus good explanation.

THEN tho . the actual disruptive demo!! melon or whatever .. and relate that to a lil brother's head etc . sorta scare em but mainly engender great respect. That's what's needed .. plus the ''famous 4'' ... naturally.

 

[RustyHammer]

Very sad.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...says she was asleep when her son found the key to the gun safe, unlocked it, and took the loaded gun.

I don't believe it.

Do do believe the leftist extremists wasted no time turning the dead child into a propaganda feast.

 

[mete]

Never underestimate the abilities of a child . I remember Neal Knox describing how his just two year old son, searched and found a revolver and searched and found the ammo and was loading it when the father arrived. The boy had never touched a gun but had seen his father handle it. The gun was immediately locked up and a few days nlater the boy was using his grandmothers car keys to try to unlock the door. Little kid s are far more capable than their parents believe !

 

[GigaBuist]

Note to self...

I'm single, no kids, no roomates, so this isn't really a concern for me at this point. But I did just get an idea from the article.

At the rate I'm going it will be IMPOSSIBLE for children not to know where the guns are stored. Maybe this is a bad idea.. BUT

What about "challening" your 3 year old to actually find the key and unlock the gun safe. With your permission and supervision. If they can do it, it's time to rethink how you're going to store your keys.

This may be a bad idea as it teaches the child that trying to find the keys is a GOOD thing... but perhaps with proper demonstration of force it will remind them why they shouldn't touch them.

The whole thing does sound fishy though.

 

[hnm201]

Are toy guns bad?

That is a very sad story indeed. I am also suspicious of the mother's story and wonder, as someone already suggested, what results fingerprinting the safe would yield. But I doubt if the DA is looking to find the mother negligent.

I find it especially heartwrenching when any harm comes to children. I have two beautiful four year old daugthers and I'm divorced. The girls live with me half the time. I have a girlfriend who has two year old son. He is very different from my own children. He is very hyperactive and very much a BOY! He's into everything. Additionally, while my girlfriend is not anti, she's not pro. I feel confident that I can school my children in firearm safety but I am already having my doubts about my would-be stepson or adopted son. He's so hyper! But he's only two.

I greatly fear that the gun and ccdw issues could come between us, and that's very sad because I very much want a family. She's not crazy about me carrying. I am not crazy about her *not* carrying in neigbhorhood and her job. She's a teacher at a very rough midde school and she has received numerous threats. She's 5.1" and thinks that she is made out of stainless steel, but I know better. Anyway, she's a Phd (yes, and a school teacher), so the one thing that respects is another Phd. I am putting together some articles written by academics who support RKBA and CCDW laws and practice. Maybe this will make an impression on her.

I have small safe with a digital lock and key back up. I store my carry gun unloaded in the small safe at night. I know that sounds crazy but I am trying to follow a strick rule that if it is not on my person, it's unloaded and locked. This is the compromise I am offering to her. Besides, I am no good for anything in the middle of the night. I am completely blotto when I sleep. if someone breaks in the middle of the night the dogs are going to have to handle it until I can get the safe open and get the pistol loaded and hopefully by then I will be awake.

As a side note. I'm 6'4" and weigh 250 and I am broad shouldered, shaved bald and I've been told that I look intimidating. So what I'd say, but inevitably the girlfriend (and the ex wife, who was ANTI) askes, "Why would you need a gun, who would mess with you!?" To which I reply with a befuddled look, "Probably some guy who is 5" tall and thinks he is Napoleon and has nothing to lose." I've been getting trouble from those guys all my life. But then I add, "I'm 6'4" now, but one day I'll only be 6'. I'll be an old man, and I am not going to wait until then to learn how to defend myself."

Ok, I finally got around to asking my question. The articles reporting the childs death by accidental shooting quoted above make reference to toy gunss. Do you think that toy guns are bad for children? If so, why? or why not. My girlfriend's son has several toy guns and squirt guns. I don't like them, personally. I also don't like violent movies.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

I played cops & robbers when I was young and my son plays with toy guns
as well. He is an only child so it is easy for me to get and keep his attention when I am trying to explain a concept. He has no desire to play cowboys and indians unless he has friends or cousins to play with. Even then the "game" may not even come up for play at all. I think it has alot to do with what he sees on TV or what time of year it is (FALL) 'cause dad is always talkin' 'bout huntin' sumthin' I try to encourage other activities and prohibit him from watching too much TV with questionable content. I still find myself having to explain to him things he has heard or seen on the toob. He also gets to see what can happen when using firearms to provide meat for the family. He likes to help me in the garage when I clean the kill. He loves chicken fried venison with 'taters & gravy. Come to think of it, so do I !

 

[Baba Louie]

Bad parenting cost a small life, once again.

How in the world can anyone "sleep" through a 9mm going off inside the house?
With two boys left unattended while Mom slept, why in the world didn't she, as S.O.P., take the magazine out and clear the chamber?
Found the key? How? Where?

I hope that Mr and Mrs Lambert are dealing with it better than I could. If that was me, I KNOW whose fault it was, and it wasn't really the little boys fault totally if he actually did it as described.

I'm sorry for the loss of a little boys life and will say a prayer for his soul... 3 year olds are so cute and full of life. I feel sorrow for the surviving brother and will say a prayer for him, he's got a rocky road ahead in his life.

Time for all parents here to go over their lock-up and child gun-proofing (or gun child-proofing) procedures and maybe have a talk with their own kids about this incident.

Or not.

What do I know? One of the horror stories in my family is that one of my Uncles who was a Cop back in the 50's (post Korean War) woke up to find my cousin playing with his loaded .38 which had not been unloaded and placed in the typical secure child-proof spot that particular day.
That cousin is now a Missouri State Trooper, my uncle has long since passed away, but that story/lesson was taught to every child in my family of 7 Aunts/Uncles and 26 cousins, God knows how many grandkids and ALL guns are kept separate from the ammo at all times and locked up.

Senseless tragedy.

Adios

 

[feedthehogs]

Negligent parenting at its worst.

They ought to take away any other kids and charge this women with manslaughter in the death of her kid.

Failure to properly secure a loaded firearm and sleeping during the day when the kids are up caused the death of her son. They should have had a sitter.

Stupid people like this make responsible gun owners look bad and cause us undo grief from the gun grabbers.

Who knows how her other son will turn out when he gets older and realizes more that he killed his brother. Sounds like a future guest of the state.

 

[smokshwn]

I'm a firefighter/paramedic from Utah and have worked quite a bit in the area in question. To those who are sensing something fishy about this situation I say Kudos. I have worked quite a bit in the part of town where this happened and needless to say as tragic as this accident is this comes as no real big surprise to people who work the streets. The house had a long history with police and fire responding to assault and domestic violence calls (you won't see that in the paper). I would be willing to bet my favorite socks the gun was not locked up. By some accounts mom called between 2-4 hours after the shot was fired. After talking to a couple of buddies who ran this call it is very evident that red flags should be flying everywhere. I pray the kids, but I hope the investigation reveals the truth and results in someone being held responsible for their idiocy/lying.