.40 S & W for Black Bear

[Robert B]

I am serious. Why wouldn't a 180 gr FMJ running close to 1,000 fps be enough to defend against a Black Bear? I am thinking that I could take two mags with me to Northern Arizona when I go there. One full of JHP's for two legged threats, and one full of FMJ's in case I run into a Black Bear. It's better than not carrying anything at all. I don't like to lug around my 44 magnum. What do you all think?

 

[sigarms228]

If it was me and I thought there might be a threat of a Black Bear I would bring a .44 magnum for defense against several hundred pounds of beast driven by pure adrenilin running at me at a high rate of speed with absolutely no fear of me. In an attack one might be lucky to get one good shot off. Another strategy is to have a companion that can not run as fast as you can.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

So I'm guessing that .380 is out? What about the Judge?

 

[REAPER4206969]

 

[WardenWolf]

I'd carry a Tokarev in 7.62x25 or a .357, minimum. When I was planning on going turkey hunting, the plan was to take my Mosin Nagant loaded with 203-grain soft points for bear defense.

 

[F-111 John]

Are you talking black bear or grizzly bear? I know a guy who hunts black bear with a bow. Nobody is going to attempt that with a grizzly.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

If it was me I would carry a 12 gage loaded with buckshot. Shoot straight for the eyes and nose.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I know a guy who hunts black bear with a bow. Nobody is going to attempt that with a grizzly.

Absolute phrases like "no one" are just too easy to refute.

Bow-hunting browns is regularly attempted and accomplished--I'm sure with a rifle as back-up, just in case. Grizzly and polar bear, too. They even get into record books.

Perhaps we all remember that the answer to "What caliber for Siberian tiger?" is .40 S&W. And if I had nothing better, sure, I'd use it on black bear in an emergency.

But I wouldn't make sure I had nothing better.

 

[Ranger30-06]

*sigh* Here we go again


My direct answer to your question: No, I would not use a .40 for black bear. All the details of black vs. brown bear are right here: .45 ACP for black bear

The conclusion stands:
.357 is the minimum for black bear
.44 is the minimum for brown bear.

Now your also going to get about 100 different caliber recommendations and such from everyone. The short answer is that black bear are only 1% of the time actually dangerous and a .357 up would be fine for a bear that's only a couple hundred pounds. If there's a chance of brown bears, the good 'ol 12 gauge with slugs stands there.

 

[mgmorden]

As the tired old saying goes, it beats a sharp stick, but I wouldn't intentionally carry it with that in mind. I have a cousin that many years ago hear his pigs making a commotion and grabbed his .22 rifle to walk outside and check it out. Long story short, it was a rather large black bear attacking one of his pigs (which due to having a crappy small flashlight he didn't discover until he was right up on it), and he was able to kill the bear with the .22. So in that case a .22 worked . . . but do you think I'd carry a .22 for black bear defense? Heck no.

Step up to one of the bigger revolver calibers. Remember - animals don't get intimidated by the sight of a gun like people might. Your average street thug may turn and run at the sight of the gun, and quite likely if the gun is shot (even if you miss), but that's not applicable for animals. There is no fear deterrent. If you pull that gun you're gonna need to shoot it, and its going to need to put them down.

Also, in studies, bear spray has actually be quicker to neutralize an animal than a gunshot. To be safe if I was in an area where they frequent I would carry both "just in case", but so long as you're not facing a headwind I'd reach for the bear spray first.

 

[MtnCreek]

I am thinking that I could take two mags with me to Northern Arizona when I go there. One full of JHP's for two legged threats, and one full of FMJ's in case I run into a Black Bear.

I'd forget about the mag swaping.

 

[mgmorden]

I'd forget about the mag swaping.

Absolutely. Most modern practices consider a safety a liability in the event that you need to use a gun in a hurry. Asking a threat (be it animal or man) to please hold while you swap mags is just asking for a trip to the local cemetery. Whatever you carry, carry something that will work for all use cases you might reasonably expect to encounter within a trip. If you carry a big gun (ie, a .44 or larger), then it doesn't need to expand.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Honestly, I think .40 would be fine for a black bear. Keep in mind if the thing is actually charging, the target will be getting bigger and bigger. I think a well placed shot for the first round and follow up panic shots are going to do the job especially as the target is moving toward you. Of course, continuous well placed shots are prefferable. Despite what many people think, bears, especially black ones, are not unstoppable freight trains. Avoidance, followed by speed and accuracy practice are your best options.

All that being said, and owning a .40, I'd still go with the .44 myself.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Asking a threat (be it animal or man) to please hold while you swap mags is just asking for a trip to the local cemetery.

I think this is relevant:

I wanted to use a certain caliber rifle for a dangerous game hunt. Researching it, I found that an expanding bullet was the best, safest choice for a broad-side first shot...but that all other angles would require a solid bullet.

Can you imagine lining up a broad-side shot, then the animal turns--you eject the expanding round in the chamber to get to the solid in the magazine--and then the animal turns back broad-side again. All the while, the animal's thinking, "What's making that bolt-action rifle-sound over there?"

So commenced a search for the perfect bullet (sound familar?) that would work for all presentations of the animal. And I actually found it! And then found it wouldn't shoot accurately out of my gun.

Then, belatedly, a brainstorm: "Hey, what if I go up in caliber?" "Oh, that would make it easy: then you just use this bullet for all possible first shots."



:banghead:

Larger caliber is sometimes the answer.

 

[KenW.]

Canadian park rangers use a twelve gauge with slugs for defense from bears.

If something in a handgun could be found with similar capabilities...

 

[MtnCreek]

Canadian park rangers use a twelve gauge with slugs for defense from bears.

If something in a handgun could be found with similar capabilities...

12ga Judge??? I'd rather fight the bear!

 

[Ben86]

Ok, ok, now that .45 vs. black bear and .40 vs. black bear have been answered, how about 9mm vs. black bear?

It's a long established fact that effective handgun calibers for bear start at .44 magnum. Using less is using something with marginal bear stopping power. Do some research on bear anatomy and strength, as well as accounts of bear hunting with handguns and you will understand.

I think you will be better served with bear spray and appropriate precautions.

 

[Dnaltrop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzri8dn7p0

I'd imagine a 12 ga Judge would be rather like this.... (nitro express pistol)

Pepper spray and a longer barreled 10mm if you hate carrying the .44... I'd carry the hardest hitting caliber I owned in your situation.

At this point for me it's the .40 as my cowboy .45 is unsuited to really hot loads. I'd have my hunting .44 mag Super Blackhawk on order this week... but a household emergency cropped up requiring once again that my Gun money cache be sacrificed for the greater good.

Dangit.

 

[beatledog7]

OTOH, lots of hunters have had tremendous success with 22LR on Teddy bears.

 

[Waywatcher]

I'd rather have 180 grain bonded hollow point, rather than FMJ.

But over either, I'd rather have my .357 with 140 Barnes XPBs.

 

[rcmodel]

I would imagine an awful lot of bear have been killed with a 38-40 Colt SAA or Winchester 92 by old cowboys and sportsmen.

The .40 S&W is almost an exact duplicate ballistically to the old 38-40 WCF.

Although there are better calibers for black bear, I would not just fall down and let him eat me if I had a 15 round .40 S&W pistol out and working.

I think it would upset his lunch plans greatly if he did somehow manage to get too me with 2,700 grains of lead in his craw!

rc

 

[hardluk1]

Buy some bear spray to go with that 40cal. Use it first. Also pick a different bullet. Get a 180gr nosler hp or better find a sp. If hunting?? buy something bigger.

 

[matrem]

Are you talking black bear or grizzly bear? I know a guy who hunts black bear with a bow. Nobody is going to attempt that with a grizzly.

I'm guessing you've never killed a decent sized animal with a broadhead?

As far as the bear and the .40..
If I had a .40, and he wanted to "get" me..... I'd much rather be me than him.

 

[cougar1717]

This may be thought as the equivalent of a "safety" whistle to some. It's not cool at all. There's no fantasy of seeing a charging bear and drawing this from your holster, but it works. Also, if you run into any unfriendly two legged creatures, it will work on them as well.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=362846

 

[tahunua001]

40 for black bears is perfectly fine. once you get up into the brown bear sized bears then 40s not going to do much. for black bear...especially a desert bear, you'll be fine with 40.