.41 Action Express...(pics)

[Cocked & Locked]

Here's a seldom seen different flavor. Tanfoglio Giuseppe Mod GT41...chambered in the now obsolete .41 Action Express caliber.

NOS ammo is available, but it don't come cheap.The Gun is an Italian made CZ type, not marked CZ or EAA. This is not mine, but belongs to a friend. I took the pics and listed it on an auction site.

Anyone else got a pistol chambered in either .41 Action Express or .50 Action Express?

 

[gardy121]

.41 Ae

I have the exact same gun in .41 AE, and is one of my favorite guns I have ever owned- and I own a lot of .45's an 9mm's. The story behind the 41AE is great, and makes so much sense. I can't believe the round never took off better than it did- I guess people just didn't understand it. For those that do not know about the round, it is basically a drop in replacement for 9mm guns to increase their stopping power. If you hold a .41ae and 9mm round rim to rim they are the same size. You buy a new barrel, recoil spring and magazine to beef up your 9mm gun. It was designed to increase the power of the Uzi, so most 41ae ammo you see is from Isreal.

The good thing about owning one, that even most people who own one o not know, is how easily they are converted back over to 9mm, or even some other caliber with a cheap kit.

I love the gun and how it shoots, but I am going to buy a 9mm and a .45 slide kit for mine, just because the 41AE ammo is hard to find and expensive. The Tanfolgio is a CZ75 model copy, so parts are very easy to get.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

The .41AE sounds interesting, I have a 9mm Baby Eagle and I believe all you need is a barrel in .41AE and a mag to make the switch. Really sad it didn't get more acceptance, the .40S&W killed it

 

[thebear101]

41ae

Im in the prosess of finding different shells to make the 41AE and I need measurements, and if there is anyone out there that has 2 or 3 empties that I can have for this purpose, this will help me out to succede the challenge, from Andy

 

[legion3]

I had the Jehrico 941 Kit from way back, the 9mm/41AE conversion briefcase.
The 41 AE was a robust, snappy and hot round. Eventually traded it. Some years later, I found at a gunshow in Maine 4 boxes of 41 AE ammo. When I went back by the table it was gone. Its the only 41 AE factory ammo I have ever seen in years of gunshops and gunshows.

This round is truly a hand loader or special order rarity form IMI.

I also had a 50AE Desert Eagle which was a big gun but the ammo is "easier" to find.

 

[BBroadside]

I went shooting with a friend with his TA 90. That's also a Tanfoglio, but it was imported before EAA existed, I think (Excam or QFI was the importer). (It was standard, steel, full-size; no polymer-frame Tanfoglios back then, I'll wager.) Quite similar to the Jericho 941, Baby Eagle, and the parent gun (the CZ 75).

Interesting story: the gun was bought when .41 AE was the next big thing, so it came with barrels for both .41 and 9mm Parabellum. We took it to the range with 9mm Para ammo and decided to convert it at the shooting bench. He chambered a round and got an ignition failure. We shrugged and he ejected the round. Another ignition failure.

I looked at the (dud?!) rounds and noticed the firing pin indentations were off-center! I told him to stop and we stripped the thing down. We had been trying to fire 9mm through the .41 barrel; the 9mm barrel just sat there in the box. How we screwed that up I don't know ... my guess it "too many cooks".

So anyway, that's the worst episode of unsafe gun handling I've been involved in. What would have happened had the primers ignited? My guess is a big case failure ... little bits of molten brass flying out the ejection port (and yes, I was standing to the guy's left!)

For a while I thought the firing pin being off-center had caused the primer not to ignite, and then I realized that the pin was just kissing the cartidge anyway, pushing it into the open space in the big ol' chamber.

Much chastened, we found it to be a lovely shooter, but I still haven't fired it in .41.

 

[hksw]

So anyway, that's the worst episode of unsafe gun handling I've been involved in. What would have happened had the primers ignited? My guess is a big case failure ... little bits of molten brass flying out the ejection port (and yes, I was standing to the guy's left!)

What will happen is that most of the case will fireform to the 9mm to .41AE chamber. Never seen a rupture but have seem a few blown out .41AE cases (and also a few 9mm blown out to .40SW cases).

IIRC, the .41AE was developed to meet the FBI's specification to the downloaded 10mm after Miami. It's direct competitor was the .40SW which was eventually chosen.

 

[BBroadside]

" ...the .41AE was developed to meet the FBI's specification to the downloaded 10mm after Miami. It's direct competitor was the .40SW which was eventually chosen."

If that's true, I'm not quite sure I understand the sequence of events. The 10mm came out in 1983; the Miami shootout was April 1986; the .41 AE was created in 1986; the .40 S&W was created in 1990. I don't know when the FBI created lighter 10mm loads though.

Also I'm not sure why .40 S&W was be prefered to .41 AE if each of them can match light 10mm loads. Maybe just the greater clout of Smith & Wesson versus Action Arms, or the greater availability of 10mm bullets.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

An old thread reborn! I now have this gun and the ammo for sale on GunBroker.

 

[bannockburn]

BBroadside

I think one of the problems with the .41AE was that there weren't enough manufacturers on board making guns in that caliber. I remember seeing a few Tanfoglio guns with both 9mm. and .41AE barrels, and I came across a couple of conversion kits for the Hi-Power; but that was about it. I believe that most manufacturers were either not interested in a new caliber, or else they were taking a wait and see attitude. This was also still during the "Wonder Nine" era, when most gun makers were flooding the market with their latest and greatest 9mm. pistols. Ammunition manufacturers were also said to have a minimum run requirement of 250,000 rounds before they would invest in the necessary load develoment and case manufacture. So while developing their 10mm. autos for the FBI, S&W also was working with Winchester on developing a "light" 10mm., based on the FBI's own criteria. This reduced 10mm. load would become the .40 S&W. And when S&W landed the CHP contract with their medium frame Model 4006 in .40 S&W, that pretty much sealed the deal on the .41AE ever becoming a viable caliber here in the U.S.

 

[Clermont]

Making .41 Action Express cases

.41 Action Express cases can be made from .41 Magnum cases. The cases are trimmed to .866" and rims are rebated to 9mm Luger dimensions. The overall length of the loaded cartridge should be the same as the 9mm Luger.

 

[thebear101]

Yes, Ive read this before, (old news) I am experimenting on some new brass, cheeper in cost, even the 41 mag is even getting sort of past material, I think that it even said that the first 41AE was an actual 41mag cut down on both ends, how about some new shell ideas for the ones that owns the 41AE, instead of paying 1.08 a loaded cartrige in this cal(41AE) any ideas out there, from ANdy

 

[shep854]

IIRC, Taurus also had a version of the PT92 in .41AE. When that round bombed, they simply enlarged the breechface and made it .40S&W.

Again IIRC, there were also feeding problems due to the rebated rim.

 

[thebear101]

Yes, Im thinking that I can lathe the 40S&W down on the primer end to match the 9mm bolt face and resize it with the 41AE die set fireform it because Im thinking that the 40 shell will be a straight wall with no taper to it, so fire forming is a fact and this round should work, from Andy

 

[Bryan]

Alternative 41AE brass

You might have a greater chance of sucess by using Winchester 7.62x39 brass to convert to 41AE. The web is right, the head take minimal lathe time, and after cutting off the case at .861", you can taper expand the case, size it and inside ream it to .410. This brass shoulb be a lot healthier than 41 mag conversions.

 

[thebear101]

41AE

You might be right on the 762x39, but if the cases are more expensive than the 40 S&W wich at the time I was thinking to, to use the inexpensive shell to recover the 41AE brass to use the Uzi's and the pistols out there with 41AE cal. and eventualy have it come back, because it is a good round, that and I shot over 1000rnd's through my uzi so far with the 40S&W brass fireformed and rim turned to 9mm size and it works well, the only problem is that you have to fireform it so you have to once fire it anyway for the start, so 40S&W is cheep brass but built like the 41AE