410 brass hulls?
- Thread starter RonnieT
- Start date
- Status
rromeo
Member
I have some .444 brass, but haven't loaded it yet. The 9.3 looks like a better choice, but more work involved.
Pete D.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,660
I have made them from .303 British.
The third from the top was made so.
The case must be annealed before fireforming. The loss rate is about 50% in my shotgun. (Some
cases crack even when annealed.) The .303 rim is thicker than the .410 and can stand some thinning. The one in the pic has not been thinned.
Hulls are short. Wads must be trimmed. Less than one half ounce of shot.
Notice that the case head does NOT blow out.
Not hard to do.... But commercial brass is available as in the pic (bottom hull is Magtech.....although modern. .410 plastic wads are too small for it.)
Pete
The third from the top was made so.
The case must be annealed before fireforming. The loss rate is about 50% in my shotgun. (Some
cases crack even when annealed.) The .303 rim is thicker than the .410 and can stand some thinning. The one in the pic has not been thinned.
Hulls are short. Wads must be trimmed. Less than one half ounce of shot.
Notice that the case head does NOT blow out.
Not hard to do.... But commercial brass is available as in the pic (bottom hull is Magtech.....although modern. .410 plastic wads are too small for it.)
Pete
Last edited:
Why not just buy them from Magtech? http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/151679/magtech-shotshell-hulls-410-bore-2-1-2-brass-box-of-25
It is just that making them is such a pain in the butt. The 444 Marlin's aren't too bad if your shotgun likes the rim diameter. But they are also a bit shorter than a 2 1/2" hull.
I've got a box if 9.3x74 cases I bought to try this. Haven't done it yet, but they seemed like the best fit. But cutting, annealing, fireforming, and what will be the case life?
303's need to be run across a belt sander to take off some rim thickness.
So if you have the spare brass and the time, nothing wrong with trying it yourself.
I've got a box if 9.3x74 cases I bought to try this. Haven't done it yet, but they seemed like the best fit. But cutting, annealing, fireforming, and what will be the case life?
303's need to be run across a belt sander to take off some rim thickness.
So if you have the spare brass and the time, nothing wrong with trying it yourself.
artee
Member
To augment the subject a bit, has anybody shooting all brass 410's ever patterned them? Have you ever patterned any .410 load, factory or reload, in a conventional shell, and how did it compare to your all brass loads? I ask this due to the bad fit of .410 shot cups (wads) and need to usually build a wad column 'old style' for your all brass shell.
artee
Member
Thanks Pete for the Photo.
BK42261 There are several reasons you might want to try the Magtech brass shells, or 'makeshift' centerfires that are a close fit. Hull life for .410's is bad. In my experience of loading them back to the mid 70's, Remington plastic has a nice memory to the crimp, helping to get good crimps on your reloads, but use a brass flashed steel head. After two reloads without a pass through a resizer, the shells will no longer chamber even in the only chamber they've ever been fired in. Winchester compression formed has been replaced by "HS". The Win CF's had a brass head that would go 8 loads easy but the crimp would 'shoot flat' and be barely perceptible even on the first firing from a factory load. It's hard to get a good crimp on the reloads, and a few (like 3 to 10 in 25) will have a botched crimp that may be 3 or 4 folds instead of 6. These then will quickly split in a firing or so, and you lose cases due to ruined case mouths. Sometime 10 years or more back, Federal cheapened their 3 in hulls and went to a roll crimp. Doing a folded crimp on a fired roll is easy with paper shells, and VERY challenging on plastic. In short, no 410 plastic case gives case life or loading ease that you take for granted in a 20 or 12.
Paper case 410's burn through just above the brass in about 2 or 3 reloads usually. Reload a paper case with pinhole burns at the brass top and the head either breaks off on extraction or the tube goes down the barrel when fired. (Plastic cases also can fail by burn through, but bad case mouths or loose primer pockets often fail the case before this happens).
Also, brass cases can give you back some internal volume to get back to 3/4 oz shot, or use a different primer style you may have more of (such as a rifle or pistol primer instead of a shotshell primer). Finally, they may exist when you no longer have a paper or plastic hull of any kind available (but, I'd argue, standard hulls will exist long after you can find a .303 .30-40 .444 or some European Metric to make a 410 case from!)
BK42261 There are several reasons you might want to try the Magtech brass shells, or 'makeshift' centerfires that are a close fit. Hull life for .410's is bad. In my experience of loading them back to the mid 70's, Remington plastic has a nice memory to the crimp, helping to get good crimps on your reloads, but use a brass flashed steel head. After two reloads without a pass through a resizer, the shells will no longer chamber even in the only chamber they've ever been fired in. Winchester compression formed has been replaced by "HS". The Win CF's had a brass head that would go 8 loads easy but the crimp would 'shoot flat' and be barely perceptible even on the first firing from a factory load. It's hard to get a good crimp on the reloads, and a few (like 3 to 10 in 25) will have a botched crimp that may be 3 or 4 folds instead of 6. These then will quickly split in a firing or so, and you lose cases due to ruined case mouths. Sometime 10 years or more back, Federal cheapened their 3 in hulls and went to a roll crimp. Doing a folded crimp on a fired roll is easy with paper shells, and VERY challenging on plastic. In short, no 410 plastic case gives case life or loading ease that you take for granted in a 20 or 12.
Paper case 410's burn through just above the brass in about 2 or 3 reloads usually. Reload a paper case with pinhole burns at the brass top and the head either breaks off on extraction or the tube goes down the barrel when fired. (Plastic cases also can fail by burn through, but bad case mouths or loose primer pockets often fail the case before this happens).
Also, brass cases can give you back some internal volume to get back to 3/4 oz shot, or use a different primer style you may have more of (such as a rifle or pistol primer instead of a shotshell primer). Finally, they may exist when you no longer have a paper or plastic hull of any kind available (but, I'd argue, standard hulls will exist long after you can find a .303 .30-40 .444 or some European Metric to make a 410 case from!)
Last edited:
I made some from the .444 cases, too thick of rims, had to take the rim down from the top side of the rim, I chucked them in a drill press and use a file with a safe side riding against the brass and took a few thousandths off the rim.
I started with large rifle primers, but my little SxS wouldn't always hit the primer hard enough to ignite them every time so I switched to large pistol primers and got around that problem. I still have them around somewhere, but they were such a pain to mess with I don't use them any more. For every brass hull I loaded I could load 30 AA plastic hulls on my Grabber in the same amount of time. I just did it to say I had.
I started with large rifle primers, but my little SxS wouldn't always hit the primer hard enough to ignite them every time so I switched to large pistol primers and got around that problem. I still have them around somewhere, but they were such a pain to mess with I don't use them any more. For every brass hull I loaded I could load 30 AA plastic hulls on my Grabber in the same amount of time. I just did it to say I had.
Pete D.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,660
Red dot
First....you need to anneal the cases or they will crack when you try to fireforming them (some are going to crack in any case). Do you know how to do this? It is not difficult but must be done.
Prime the case. Drop 7-8 grains of Red Dot. Fill the remainder of the case with CoW...to the mouth. Seal the end with a bit of wax. Chamber (note...the 303 rim is thicker than the .410 rim, unless thinned as discussed, it may not chamber.)
Point the muzzle up. Fire.
If the case comes away from forming a tad uneven that is ok. It will straighten out upon use with a shot load or two.
pete
First....you need to anneal the cases or they will crack when you try to fireforming them (some are going to crack in any case). Do you know how to do this? It is not difficult but must be done.
Prime the case. Drop 7-8 grains of Red Dot. Fill the remainder of the case with CoW...to the mouth. Seal the end with a bit of wax. Chamber (note...the 303 rim is thicker than the .410 rim, unless thinned as discussed, it may not chamber.)
Point the muzzle up. Fire.
If the case comes away from forming a tad uneven that is ok. It will straighten out upon use with a shot load or two.
pete
Red Dot was all the fast powder I had on hand and its 20 years+ old , but has been stored well.
The 303 brass has been deprimed and cleaned and checked for fit in my old Savage, it closed on all of it.
I dont have to pack the grits in it or seperate it in the case? ( instant Grits is what I have handy).
Hot wax or just push some wax in the end of the case?
I plan on annealing them today as far as I can to the base, I plan on using the hot lead/cold water way.
I am not going to blow up my gun with the 7-8gr of red dot?
Thanks
Ron
The 303 brass has been deprimed and cleaned and checked for fit in my old Savage, it closed on all of it.
I dont have to pack the grits in it or seperate it in the case? ( instant Grits is what I have handy).
Hot wax or just push some wax in the end of the case?
I plan on annealing them today as far as I can to the base, I plan on using the hot lead/cold water way.
I am not going to blow up my gun with the 7-8gr of red dot?
Thanks
Ron
Pete D.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,660
Oh3
No, you do not have to put anything between the powder and the cereal.
You can, if you wish, push a small amount of cotton into the case atop the powder. I just drop in the cereal.
Red dot will not harm the firearm. Yes, just press in the beeswax.
Be prepared for some case loss.
Pete
No, you do not have to put anything between the powder and the cereal.
You can, if you wish, push a small amount of cotton into the case atop the powder. I just drop in the cereal.
Red dot will not harm the firearm. Yes, just press in the beeswax.
Be prepared for some case loss.
Pete
Last edited:
NCsmitty
Member
Eventually you'll realize that messing with the 303 or 444 Marlin brass is a pita. I played around with the 444 brass and I even have an old 444 Lee loader that I used. There was no advantage, IMO.
You can pump out a bunch of great looking 410 shells using a Mec reloader and Remington or Win AA plastic hulls. I even hand fill buckshot loads, then final crimp on the Mec. I buy quantities of once fired plastic hulls if possible, new if not.
Live and learn.
NCsmitty
You can pump out a bunch of great looking 410 shells using a Mec reloader and Remington or Win AA plastic hulls. I even hand fill buckshot loads, then final crimp on the Mec. I buy quantities of once fired plastic hulls if possible, new if not.
Live and learn.
NCsmitty
Pete D.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,660
Point
I know how to do this.
For my practical everyday use, I load plastic hulls on a MEC.
Ronnie: stick with 8 grains of Unique.
Pete
You may be missing the point. For myself, at least, making, loading and using large numbers of brass .410s is not the issue. Knowing how to do it, both intellectually and hands on, is the point.
I know how to do this.
For my practical everyday use, I load plastic hulls on a MEC.
Ronnie: stick with 8 grains of Unique.
Pete
- Status
