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410 for defense?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by TreeDoc, May 23, 2012.

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  1. TreeDoc

    TreeDoc Member

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    Have looking at some data about the 410 shotgun loads, it seems out of a 18 1/ inch shotgun, velocity of 1200 and #4 buck (350 grains) would pretty leathal. Have a female friend who wants one, she's tried the 12, NO. She's tried the 20, NO. 410 she likes. What say the experts?
     
  2. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    I like the 3" 5 pellet 000 buckshot for HD. Period. I've shot a lot of materials with it and it hits hard while patterning well in my guns. Ymmv.
     
  3. duns

    duns Member

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    410 for home defense might be better than 12 ga because of lower blast, noise, and recoil. On the other hand, 12 ga will fire more pellets of any given size, so might be better than 410. Looks to me like a case of balancing the pros and cons and no clear cut winner in general. Since your friend feels she can't handle a 12 ga or even a 20 ga, then that would seem to tip the balance in favor of the 410, at least for her.
     
  4. RMc

    RMc Member

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    Before the final decision, have your friend try a light weight 12 gauge loaded with reduced recoil LE 8 pellet 00B. This 1 ounce 1145 fps load has less recoil than 20 gauge buckshot. Recoil should be similar to a 11/16th ounce load from a lighter .410 bore.

    This tight patterning 8 pellet Federal LE 00B load with Flite-Control wad is now the most popular youth and ladies buckshot load in Southern deer camps.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  5. pps

    pps Member

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    If .410 is the only thing she is willing to use, then get her a .410. Throw in the load mentioned above with 5 000bk pellets. I wouldn't want to get hit with that crap.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wMmx2fUVQ
     
  6. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the 12ga and the 20ga that your friend tried were NOT fitted to her properly, and/or she didn't mount the guns properly - With heavier kicking firearms such as shotguns and large bore rifles, the fundamentals are so much more important - If you don't or can't hold the weapon properly either due to lack of experience or a gun that doesn't fit you, you'll end up sore or injured as well as being less accurate than with a gun that fits properly and is held/shouldered properly. My 90lb sister goes through just as many boxes of slugs as I do every time I visit up north and take her shooting - her shotgun fits her properly, and she's been taught the proper way to shoot a shotgun.
     
  7. Pfletch83

    Pfletch83 member

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    With the right loads a .410 is on fairly equal footing with the other gauges mentioned (maybe even better due to the low weight and recoil of the .410,plus ammo load out will be boosted quite a bit over the 12 and 20)

    #4 Buck-'000' buck are still booking it out the muzzle at a good velocity,and at home defense ranges anyone on the bad side of it will be in for a time and a half.

    I would recommend the DFG Mk-1 (wood stock) or DFG Mk-2 (synthetic stock)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLllXhNvMI&feature=plcp

    The DFG Mk-1 has a 14-inch L.O.P while the DFG Mk-2 has an inch shorter 13-inch L.O.P.

    (If the stock is still too long the best way to go might be to trim the synthetic stock down to fit)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  8. snooperman

    snooperman Member

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    +1 on what Rail Driver said....

    A proper fitting gun makes all the difference whether for home defense, hunting , or clay shoots. My wife shoots a 12 ga , and hunts with one too. The Ithaca gun was fitted for her. Recoil is not a problem even though she weighs about 130lbs. My 2 cents
     
  9. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    One of the basic strategies for choosing a self defense caliber is to use the biggest caliber you can reliably handle. If that is a .410, go with that.

    However, I have to ask if she would be better off with a rifle than with a .410? There's definite power in the 12-gauge, but you have about half the power in a 3" .410 as you do in a 2.75" 12-gauge. At that point, you might be better served with a .223 instead.
     
  10. 303tom

    303tom member

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    A load of 3 in.# 4`s out of a .410 shotgun at 15 to 25 feet is just going to poke a big hole in ya............
     
  11. 303tom

    303tom member

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    What ever you use, at Home Defense range, 10 to 30 feet the shot is not even going to get out of the shot cup.............
     
  12. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Not necessarily - folks talk about using handguns for HD - 1200 fps is faster than a 38 and nipping on the heels of the 357 while being typically faster than a lot of 9mm
    A 410 buckshot load will do the job if the person can't handle the 12 and 20, better to get her something she WILL use and feel comfortable practicing with than something she is afraid of and won't practice with
     
  13. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    What I mean is you typically have 9 pellets of 00B in a 2.75" 12-ga load and 5 pellets of 000B in a 3" .410 load (okay, so not half the power, but you still lose a lot of pattern and lead going downrange).

    I'm also not saying the .410 is bad, but if you're wanting HD power with less recoil, switching from the shotgun platform to a rifle is probably a better bet, because of how the rifle does its wounding.

    I do advocate the use of .410 revolvers for SD, but .410 vs. .357 magnum is a big difference between .410 vs. .223 Remington. In my personal situation, I probably would go with a .410 over an AR, simply because I can use .410 at the range I go to and there aren't any rifle ranges nearby. I'm just saying it's something to consider.
     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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  15. pps

    pps Member

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    To everyone who recommended a properly fitting 20 or 12ga....no argument here that fit is paramount importance. However, if mama has it in her head already that 20 and 12ga are just too much to handle...I'll get her a .410. If my wife tells me a 410 is the only way she will agree to shoot...then I'm not arguing with mama about fit...I'm getting her the 410. If mama isn't happy...nobody is going to be happy.
     
  16. Samari Jack

    Samari Jack Member

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    A quality double .410 with appropriately short or shortened barrels would be quick handling and easy to use.
     
  17. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Of course, in between there IS the 28 gauge..........:D

    Just sayin'................;)
     
  18. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Member

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    My point wasn't to try and talk her into a 12 or 20 - my point was to get her a properly fitted .410 so that she can learn to shoot properly. Eventually she'll see the potential and veritable shortcomings of the .410 versus a larger bore, and may be willing to try something stouter (and properly fitted) in the future.

    Fit is very important - but so is proper fundamentals.
     
  19. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    ANY gun needs proper fitting - even handguns for someone to enjoy shooting them and also to allow them to hit their intended target - goes without question

    Many women shy away from 12 gauge guns because somewhere in their past, someone thought it would be funny to have them touch some uber-powerful round, almost knocking them on the butt - there are too many you tubes with jerks gladly filming that;
    hopefully that isn't the case here as that will be hard to overcome
     
  20. 451 Detonics

    451 Detonics Member

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    The Mossberg pump with the 2 1/2 Federal 000 buck load would be my recommendation as well. This shell makes about 1350 fps with 4 000 pellet out of a 18 inch barrel.

    Personally I would prefer a small stature person go with a M1 Carbine instead of the 410 shotgun for home defense. Having 20 rounds of CorBon DPX on hand would be very effective in discouraging aggressive behavior.

    I would prescribe:

    100gr Cu, I.M., PRN
    2 refills
     
  21. pps

    pps Member

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    Oh dear Lord...that's all I need is one more caliber/gauge to add to my reloading bench. My wife would kill me....and I don't think I can pull off, "But precious...I bought this for YOU!"....Don't think she'll fall for that again.
     
  22. IMTHDUKE

    IMTHDUKE Member

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    Just tell her to eat her wheaties and just show this to a home invader and it will change his attitude.:D
    [​IMG]
     
  23. SHR970

    SHR970 Member

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    The bore that shall not be mentioned (410) aka 1/2 a 12 gauge that she is not intimidated by and she will consider / practice with is far better than a 12 gauge that she is now / probably unwilling to try again. At across the room distances, the 410 with decent buck loads will make an interesting wound channel, does not suffer for lack of penetration, and delivers adequate energy to the target. Pity the fool who is on the wrong end of one and scoffs at the size of the muzzle....he is either crazy, on drugs, or both. The 410 with a proper load can cure him of these maladies PDQ.
     
  24. au_prospector

    au_prospector Member

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    I was looking at that exact shotgun for my daughter. Comes with adjustable LOP too!
    Personally, I would avoid a rifle platform for HD, for the massive penetration thing. Would not want the liability of .223 or .308 rounds leaving my home when I pull the trigger. #3 or #4 buck is plenty mean, even in a .410
     
  25. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Au_prospector, self defense rounds from a .223 or .308 are designed not to overpenetrate, and actually are safer after going through a wall than buckshot is. They have more energy, yes, but at the velocity rifle rounds go, the bullet engineers are able to control how that energy is spent.
     
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