.416 Ruger

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A mate of mine has a 404 like BruceB, but the recoil is more than I like, in fact makes my 416 Rigby a pussy to shoot. Still as Bruce says its a well thought out work gun.
 
I think I'll hold out for a 458 Ruger they got to have one on the drawing board. I love the 458. I have a Marlin 1895 GS in 45-70 and a Interarms Mark X in 458 win mag. And yes I am a recoil freak.
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Now that would be a fun one !
 
The .404 fires the same bullet weight nearly 300 FPS slower than the Rigby, assuming factory ballistics. Perhaps the stock design on your mate's rifle does not suit you.
 
I just came to the conclusion that the .416 Ruger will be the answer to a mistake I made with a barrel blank I ordered from Lilja. I guess my head was up my wazoo the day I order this blank in a #4 contour. I have been through the, why, why, why with this blank every time I pick it up. Man is this thing ever light weight for caliber. I don't even remember what plans I had for a .416? I asked for suggestions on another forum and the response was the .416 Ruger. Not a bad idea, as there will be no problems getting brass.

This will definitely need one of Harrell's brakes, maybe some weight in the butt stock. Most importantly of all, a buyer at a gunshow.
 
The .404 fires the same bullet weight nearly 300 FPS slower than the Rigby, assuming factory ballistics. Perhaps the stock design on your mate's rifle does not suit you.
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This both correct and incorrect. The original .404 Jeffery Loads were a 400 gr bullet @ 2150 FPS. However the later RWS loads that came out in the late 20's were a 400 gr bullet @ 2300FPS which is darn near the same power level as a factory .416 Rigby load.

In a modern action it is possible to load a .404 Jeffery to over 2500 fps with a 400 gr bullet. I load mine to 2300 fps. There is nothing on the planet including mature bull elephant that this load with proper bullet won't put on the ground post haste. I find the .404 very comfortable to shoot in fact I think it is a fantastic DG choice for ladies.

Here is the great advantage to the .416 Ruger. I don't really care about the action length or the shorter powder column. But here are two things that will sell the living crap out of the .416 Ruger.
1. It is a ready to go out of the box DG rifle for under $1000.00 USD. My guess is that you'll start seeing young PH's carrying these things pretty soon. It is the the most bang for the buck out there.

2. Nobody and I mean nobody has built a larger than .375 diameter Alaska style stainless synthetic factory gun ever. I can't think of a better out of the box carry gun for brown bear guides and hunters in coastal AK than the .416 Ruger Alaskan. It simply doesn't exist.

And if you think there isn't a market niche for this type of rifle just try and find your self a stainless M-70 in .375H&H. With rare exception every single one was snatched up within days of USRAC going out of business. They are basically impossible to find now days.

I think the .416 Ruger is a fantastic idea. And I am not a gee wizz new cartridge kind of a guy.

I think within 5 years they will be common in Africa and will be everywhere in Alaska.
 
Seems like this same discussion came up regarding the .375 Ruger.

The main benefit is.......COST!!!!!!

The 375 H&H and the 416 Rigby use (in most cases) MAGNUM actions.
The 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger use Standard length actions.

I'm talking commercial rifles here, not customs.

Therefore, you can get the rifle for $800-$1000, instead of $1600-$2000.

(I know, I know. You can get a CZ 550 for $900)

Cost may not mean much for someone who has the money to go to Africa. However, it might mean something to folks who live in Alaska and Canada and just want to own something with more oomph.

If we want to talk useless, lets discuss the 30TC.................
 
Nobody and I mean nobody has built a larger than .375 diameter Alaska style stainless synthetic factory gun ever.
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OK OK never say never....:D I have just been kindly informed that Winchester did in fact make a stainless version of the .416 Remington for a short time. So sue me!;)
 
If anyone wish to go to Africa I wouldnt mind taking one of weatherby's cartridges.. while overpowered and worthlessly expensive, which only fit a nostalgic persona(I have to have it) in North America(excluding bears) they are held in pretty high regard for ballistic performance in African game and when your life's on the line ill take the super charged cartridge.

As for these "up and coming" cartridges based off old ones which promise similar ballistics.. whats the point..? Brass will be more expensive as well as dies ect.. your really going the extra lengths for no reason whatsoever..
 
Weatherby's are not in common usage in Africa. In fact most PH's despise Weatherby rifles and don't have much good to say about the cartridges either.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen a Weatherby cartridge or rifle in an African hunting camp. While of course the odd Weatherby gets into Africa form time to time they are pretty rare.
 
Weatherby's are not in common usage in Africa. In fact most PH's despise Weatherby rifles and don't have much good to say about the cartridges either.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen a Weatherby cartridge or rifle in an African hunting camp. While of course the odd Weatherby gets into Africa form time to time they are pretty rare.
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H&Hhunter,

Mainly what I was insinuating is you could use a 378 Weatherby for all your African game hunting purposes.. while being able to reach out and touch just about anything while having that same energy at 200 yards that 416 has at the muzzle, very versatile cartridges with hunting bullets offering high BC.

As for the PH's they are essentially professional trackers..carry one rifle and only are there aside from tracking if things get out of hand.. and when your tracking a wounded lion into thick bush wheres theres laws against baiting them to begin with.. theres usually 3-4 PH's with rifles.

As for the Weatherby cartridges never to be seen on African soil their sure is alot of ballistic twins, seeing how the boys at accuratereloading duplicating the 375ultra/378 Weatherby's performance in their all purpose 375-404 Jeffery. That rifle alone built off a dakota 76 action has taken over 160+ African game animals including elephants and cape buffalo essentially another one of those supercharged cartridges..sometimes at long distances as well, dont take my word for it though.. here is a zebra out to 300 yards.

Zebra

Above all else.. shot placement is key..while a big benefit is also being a good distance away from dangerous game.
 
The few PHs I've spoken with are not fans of hyper velocity cartridges. In fact they told me anything that goes faster than 2500fps is not a rifle they trust unless it's the .375 Holland or the 9.3x62mm. Those are the two exceptions.
 
I have a M98 large ring action I was going to rebarrel to 416 Taylor...
The New Ruger / Hornady cartdrige has me holding up... The brass may be less expensive in the long run...
 
As for the PH's they are essentially professional trackers..carry one rifle and only are there aside from tracking if things get out of hand.. and when your tracking a wounded lion into thick bush wheres theres laws against baiting them to begin with.. theres usually 3-4 PH's with rifles.

As for the Weatherby cartridges never to be seen on African soil their sure is alot of ballistic twins, seeing how the boys at accuratereloading duplicating the 375ultra/378 Weatherby's performance in their all purpose 375-404 Jeffery. That rifle alone built off a dakota 76 action has taken over 160+ African game animals including elephants and cape buffalo essentially another one of those supercharged cartridges..sometimes at long distances as well, dont take my word for it though.. here is a zebra out to 300 yards.
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Jimm,

You must be referring to Saeed Al Maktoum he is the only guy I am aware of who uses a 375-404 built on a Dakota M-76 action. And yes he has killed multiple hundreds of head of dangerous game with it.

Now as far as PH's being trackers. That is hardly ever the case. The PH is just that a professional hunter who is responsible for the hunt, the safety of his clients and the proper and ethical conduct of the hunt. He is in no way a "professional tracker" They hire professional native trackers do the tracking the PH and the client follow trackers until the target animal is spotted . The PH then takes the hunter into position for a shot.

If the client wounds the animal the trackers are brought back in and they track while the PH and the client keep their eyes off the ground looking for the animal and watching for a charge.

I've been involved in several wounded DG follow ups and we've never been in a position to call in "3 or 4" armed PH's to help out. In fact the thought is that anymore than two guns is too damn many on a follow up. And I agree with that 100%.



I just watched the Zebra video. That is Saeed's rifle the guy shooting it is Named Walter. That was a lousy shot by the way it was to far back. Walter is infamous for his lousy shooting on game. Walter loves to accompany Saeed on his various adventures and has just recently started shooting game or hitting game I should say. What indication do have that the zebra was 300 yards away did I miss something , was it in the title of the video? And even if it was I've shot big game further than that with just a standard old .375H&H I don't get what that video is supposed to show in regards to the capability of a .375-404, which by the way is identical in almost every way to a .375 RUM.

Now if you get on www.accuratereloading.com and go to the video section there are some impressive long range shots on buffalo with that rifle.
 
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Jimm.

This video really shows what that 404-375 is capable of. Saeed uses a custom bullet he calls the Walterhog. It is a monolithic square nosed bullet. He makes then him self or I should say Walter makes them for him. This buffalo was shot at 100 yards quartering away check out the exit wound with the lung froth on the off shoulder. This is some awesome penetration!

http://www.accuratereloading.com/video/buf49.mpg
 
Jimm,

You must be referring to Saeed Al Maktoum he is the only guy I am aware of who uses a 375-404 built on a Dakota M-76 action. And yes he has killed multiple hundreds of head of dangerous game with it.

Now as far as PH's being trackers. That is hardly ever the case. The PH is just that a professional hunter who is responsible for the hunt, the safety of his clients and the proper and ethical conduct of the hunt. He is in no way a "professional tracker" They hire professional native trackers do the tracking the PH and the client follow trackers until the target animal is spotted . The PH then takes the hunter into position for a shot.

If the client wounds the animal the trackers are brought back in they track while the PH and the client keep there eyes up off the ground looking for the animal and watching for a charge.

I've been involved in several wounded DG follow ups and we've never been in a position to call in "3 or 4" armed PH's to help out. In fact the thought is that anymore than two guns is too damn many on a follow up. And I agree with that 100%.



I just watched the Zebra video. That is Saeed's rifle the guy shooting it is Named Walter. That was lousy shot by the way it was to far back. Walter is infamous for his lousy shooting on game. But what indication do have that the zebra was 300 yards away? And even if it was I've shot game further than that with just a standard old .375H&H I don't get what that video is supposed to show in regards to a .375-404, which by the way is identical in almost every way to a .375 RUM.

Now if you get on www.accuratereloading.com and go to the video section there are some impressive long range shots on buffalo with that rifle.
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Thanks for responding.

Agreed that Ph's personal responsibility/safety of the group.

They actually mentioned in the end of the video it was 270ish.. towards the end.. Saeed has the camera its pretty low I had to crank my speakers up to hear it..

There was a hunt in Botswana lead by Garth Robinson where they did a follow up on a lion where they had 3-4 PH's with rifles..I have not been to Africa yet..so ill shut my trap :) however can agree the number seemed to much.. theres actually a video of it
here..

Ive seen most of the videos however the video with "Walters" shooting was in my eyes a picture prefect representation of what the rifle was capable of in the hands of someone other then Saeed himself. Saeed on the forums is held in high regard for his hunting accuracy but that rifle he built is also a fantastic piece cartridge and all.
 
Jimm.

This video really shows what that 404-375 is capable of. Saeed uses a custom bullet he calls the Walterhog. It is a monolithic square nosed bullet. He makes then him self or I should say Walter makes them for him. This buffalo was shot at 100 yards quartering away check out the exit wound with the lung froth on the off shoulder. This is some awesome penetration!
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Thanks for that..

You do know there is a section for their 2008 hunts.. that was a sticky in the African game hunting forum this where I pulled the zebra video, interesting he was using custom bullets awhile back.. he used barnes 300gr triple X in the 2008 hunt.. seemed to have excellent success..

Anyway not to get an ass chewing from being too off topic..:D the 416 ruger at the moment is one of the more expensive 416.. @ 50.00 a die set and 42.00 for 20 brass.. 416 remington is 15.xx for 20 brass... and 30 a die set..
 
Float Pilot, build your Taylor, it will still be easier to feed than the Ruger for some time yet. Informed rumour has it that Norma will shortly legitimise it in the African PH series of cartridges, & if you get sick of it, a 416 Ruger reamer will clean up a Tyalor chamber with no other alteration necessary.
Steve
 
he used barnes 300gr triple X in the 2008 hunt.. seemed to have excellent success..
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Jimm,

I also used 300GR TSX for my 2008 hunt. I had a one shot kill on a gnarly old dagga boy. That was out of a lowly old .375H&H. I'd say excellent results as well.

Zim 2008

buff20084.jpg
 
Hello Fellows,

Having fired a few rounds through the Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in 416 RCM, I can say that I was pretty darn pleased with the feel and fit. I found the recoil much less than expected, due to a combination of several factors. The ballistics are impressive, taking into consideration what the firearm is supposed to do. It's a short range stomper. I fired it at 100 yards, and I was very pleased with the accuracy.

I must agree with H&H Hunter, that cost, cartridge, and capability will make it a niche winner.

In talking with one of the Ruger VPs of Operations at the SHOT Show, part of the reason for developing new cartridges is that the cost of royalties is now so expensive, that it is cheaper over time to create a new cartridge!

I did a small review of the Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in 416 RCM after the SHOT Show. I give my impressions on it, which are very favorable.

Thank You and Regards,
Albert A Rasch,
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
 
I for one am glad CZ never came out with a .375 or larger with a cheap plastic stock. Whoever wants them can take them. If you take care of a gun reasonably at all, a blued/wood one can last forever, even in the worst climates, IMO.
 
A principal advantage of at least the .375 Ruger is that it can be fired from a $1,000 long action rifle rather than a $2-3,000 .375 H&H Magnum length action rifle. That it can do so and match ballistics of a round developed in 1912 is a plus. If I find myself planning another trip to Alaska, I'll get one as I hope I never have to face down a bear but if I do, I'd druther have a .375 rifle than a .44 Magnum revolver or one of its big brothers in 460 or 500.

No argument that the .375 Ruger or .416 Ruger does nothing that the .375H&H or .416 Rigby does...it's the rifle that's the difference.

:)

Harry

PS-I've fired 3 rounds from a .458 Win Mag, found it pretty unpleasant and hope never to need one of those cannons again

H
 
Dr W,

I don't know that I would characterize the Hogue Overmold as a cheap stock. Compared to a H&H Round Action Sidelock with selected walnut, polished and oiled finished, perhaps it might give that impression. But none the less it is a very good quality piece of engineering. It may lack the finesse and sheer beauty of the H&H, but it has its own lovable personality! And besides, how many of us can afford the round action at $65500?

But I don't disagree with you on the blued and wood portion. Proper care will keep just about anything working right and looking good.

Regards,
Albert A Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles
 
My 2 cents

I just became a member of Highroad in doing some research on 416 Ruger. This has been an interesting thread to read and I thought I would just add my view. Since I live in Alaska and already do own many of the big boars mentioned here, I guess I'll admit that I have an addiction to recoil like others, but what has my interest the most about this new caliber is not that it's a wildcat, it's beltless, or it’s just another gun... It's because it’s weather proof, being stainless, synthetic stock, it’s a short gun, and it’s under $1000. Granted, if we take care of our blued firearms, they do work fine and will last lifetimes.

Having a 375 H&H, a 338 win mag, and a 45/70 SS Marlin guide gun as my big bores, I have to tell you the one I have been hunting with the most in the last 5 years has been my 45/70. Two years ago when my hunting buddy called me and asked that I back him up in trailing a brown bear he shot with his bow, I said sure, and grabbed my 45/70 and off we went. As we trailed the bear I started to wonder, is my 45/70 enough to stop a pissed off - wounded brown bear in the brush at 10 to 15 yards? :eek: Lucky for us, his arrow did the trick and we found him dead about 70yrds into it.

But I started looking for something that would do just what I was wanting then, a gun powerful enough to stop a charging brown bear in a short, weatherproof big bore. Low and behold, the 416 Ruger.

I had my mind made up in getting the Ruger 458 Lott but it’s blued, about $2000 and longer than I would like not to mention it does kick like a mule. But now the 416 Ruger comes out so I am going to get it, but am not in too much of a hurry yet because you can’t get the bullets for them yet since Hornady has recalled them. But the dealers now are starting to get them in regularly and they are being swept up as quickly as they show up… just no ammo yet.

So my question to you all is, have you bought one yet and better yet, shot it? If so, what do you think?

Tony
 
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