44 Mag load improvements

[fouled bore]

I am loading 44 Mag for a Rossi R92 carbine. I am using H110 with CCI mag primers with 240gr. Hornady XTP and 240gr Nosler hollow points. I cannot get either one to group better than factory rounds and I am not sure why. I have worked up loads from 23gr. to 24gr. with no noticeable differences.
I have thought about trying a different powder. Any suggestions?

 

[rg1]

No help here. My load is Win 296, same as H110, using 23.0 grains and CCI 350 primers and Hornady 240 XTP's. Shoots very good in my Ruger Super Blackhawk 7 1/2" barrel and my Winchester Trapper rifle. I wouldn't drop below 22 grains of H110/Win 296 or go above 24.0 grains. Only thing I'd try is extra careful bullet alignment starting the bullet in the seater die. May require slightly more belling and even possibly trimming cases if they vary in length a lot. Need a good consistent heavy roll crimp.

 

[eldon519]

What kind of accuracy are you getting? You could slug your bore. Many .44 mag rifle bores are slightly bigger than their pistol counterparts due to differing SAAMI specs. Perhaps a larger bullet would do better if it is oversized. Playing with COL might help but the crimp grooves, cannelures, and action limit what you can do there. I supposed you could also try one of those dual-ring carbide dies or try neck sizing the cases, but it might not feed reliably. At the end of the day, it is a 92 and not a precision rifle.

 

[fouled bore]

What kind of accuracy are you getting? You could slug your bore. Many .44 mag rifle bores are slightly bigger than their pistol counterparts due to differing SAAMI specs. Perhaps a larger bullet would do better if it is oversized. Playing with COL might help but the crimp grooves, cannelures, and action limit what you can do there. I supposed you could also try one of those dual-ring carbide dies or try neck sizing the cases, but it might not feed reliably. At the end of the day, it is a 92 and not a precision rifle.

Factory loads, Federal American Eagle, I can hold to about a 1 inch circle at 50 yards. I have a reflex sight on the gun so I limit my shooting to 50 yards. My loads are about double that. The federal bullets are just like the Nosler at .429 diameter. The XTP are .430 diameter. I see a lot of people prefer the XTP with 24gr of H110. I trim all the cases to the same length so that they get the same crimp.

 

[Buck13]

Are you shooting with a scope or iron sights? If irons, are the groups much worse than your iron sight work with other rifles? YMMV, but I find it slow going to convince myself that my groups with iron sights are determined by the ammo, not the loose nut behind the trigger. It can be done, but it takes a lot of rounds.

 

[fouled bore]

Are you shooting with a scope or iron sights? If irons, are the groups much worse than your iron sight work with other rifles? YMMV, but I find it slow going to convince myself that my groups with iron sights are determined by the ammo, not the loose nut behind the trigger. It can be done, but it takes a lot of rounds.

Yes, it could be the nut behind the trigger. I am using a non powered reflex sight.

 

[jack44]

I use 2400 when loading 44 I either use a 240 bullet or a 325 lead bullet

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

 

[gotboostvr]

I had the same experience in my 44 mag Rossi 92.
Full load ladder with 240gr XTP'S, none seemed any better than factory.
I switched to IMR4227 and found a real sweet load up near max with a good firm crimp. Shoots great out of my 629 as well.
Good luck!

 

[fouled bore]

I had the same experience in my 44 mag Rossi 92.
Full load ladder with 240gr XTP'S, none seemed any better than factory.
I switched to IMR4227 and found a real sweet load up near max with a good firm crimp. Shoots great out of my 629 as well.
Good luck!

Thanks, I am looking at trying a different powder but I am not sure what to try, 4227 or 2400. I am not having much luck seeing 2400 but will see 4227 on some shelves. I have heard that 4227 can be dirty, have you experienced this in your 44 loads?

 

[Axis II]

I have a H&R Handi rifle in 44mag and when I asked the local reloading shop what they recommended the guy handed me imr 4227 and cci mag primers and I chose Hornady 240gr HP as well. he said load it almost to max with a good crimp and you will love it. well I went home and worked up from start load to 24gr max load per the book and hodgdons and at 75 yards off a front and rear bag I can get them touching if I'm doing the right thing or the group of a baseball.

yes its dirty powder but groups like that I don't care. try it you will love it.

 

[Kingcreek]

I got lucky with a load that shoots well in both my Winchester 94 and my SW 629 using 296 and 240gr XTPs. Can't help with your rossi. Have you slugged the barrel?

 

[eldon519]

Could try Accurate #9. My experience with Acc powders has been good. Very clean burning.

 

[fouled bore]

I got lucky with a load that shoots well in both my Winchester 94 and my SW 629 using 296 and 240gr XTPs. Can't help with your rossi. Have you slugged the barrel?

I have not slugged the barrel. I only thought that really mattered with led bullets. I was kind of discounting that as an issue because the federal factory rounds with .429 bullets shoot well, better than the .429 Nosler bullets. I will see if I can slug it this weekend.

It shoots well with Berrys plated bullets using 10.3gr of SR7625 at around 1100fps.

 

[Axis II]

I don't have much experience but I will tell you this. I shot factory hornady v max in my 223rem for a few years and while I got good hunting accuracy out of that ammo I reloaded my own with h335 and mag primers and benchmark with regular and mag primers with the v max bullet. h335 shot okay with loads from start to max and different primers but when I switched to benchmark powder with both mag and reg primers I could hit a quarter 5 times or put 5 shots in a ragged hole the size of a quarter. just by changing the powder the gun shot much better with the same bullet by just changing powder.

I would just grab a pound of different powder and still use the same bullet and see what happens. maybe change primer too.

When I started with h335 I used regular primers and someone said switch to mag primers and the groups shrunk a lot even with the same charge. if you switch to a mag primer I would start over and load up, don't be at max charge and throw a mag primer in there.

 

[buck460XVR]

I wouldn't worry about slugging the bore when using jacketed bullets. Your 1'' groups at 50 yards is pretty good for a handgun caliber carbine. The Federal ammo(iffin I saw correctly) is pretty mild compared to a max load of H110/W296. Could the difference be recoil anticipation? I use both H110/W296 and IMR4227 in my .44 carbines(Marlin lever and Ruger 77/44). They seem to like the 4227 just a tad more as per accuracy. Still both will give me 1'' @ 50. The Noslers are just as accurate as the Hornady's. I'd try some 4227, it will not be dirty at the upper end from a carbine. It likes to be mildly compressed or just at the point of compression.

 

[fouled bore]

That's where I am at right now. I am trying to figure out what powder to try. I was thinking about 4227 but now deciding against it, I hear it can be dirty and also because on the burn rate chart it is next to H110 on the slow side. I was thinking about 2400 but don't have it available right now. I had not thought about No.9. It is faster than H110 and slower than 2400. It is also available so I may be trying it.

 

[fouled bore]

Could try Accurate #9. My experience with Acc powders has been good. Very clean burning.

Thanks, is No.9 a stick, ball or flake powder?

 

[rg1]

Accurate #9 is a very fine ball powder. I use it in .357 Magnum but like Win 296 for 44 Magnum so I haven't given AA#9 a try in .44 Mag. Accurate Arms calls it a double base spherical powder.

 

[mdi]

BTW, SAAMI specs. for .44 Magnum rifle barrels is .431". I found that my Puma shot better with cast bullets sized to .433" than any jacketed bullets I tried. I haven't loaded any much more than "upper mid-level" as a 240 or 265 gr. LRNPF at medium levels will dispatch anything I might shoot at. If I need more power, I'll use my Garand or Ruge 308...

 

[buck460XVR]

I was thinking about 4227 but now deciding against it, I hear it can be dirty and also because on the burn rate chart it is next to H110 on the slow side.

....and what will that have to do with accuracy?:banghead:

Where a powder falls on the burn rate chart and a few flakes of unburnt powder should be the least of your worries if you cannot get your handloads to even come close to the accuracy of factory. Again, at the upper end outta a carbine, IMR4227 will not be that dirty. The slow burn rate makes for a excellent powder to use for upper end loads in magnum handgun ammo, especially from a carbine. Hornady claims in it's 7th Edition of Cartridge Reloading that IMR4227 gave the most consistent results in their carbine.

While I don't have a Rossi lever in .44 mag, I do have one in .357. The little gun is a tack driver with virtually any ammo I run thru it.

 

[fouled bore]

....and what will that have to do with accuracy?:banghead:

Where a powder falls on the burn rate chart and a few flakes of unburnt powder should be the least of your worries if you cannot get your handloads to even come close to the accuracy of factory. Again, at the upper end outta a carbine, IMR4227 will not be that dirty. The slow burn rate makes for a excellent powder to use for upper end loads in magnum handgun ammo, especially from a carbine. Hornady claims in it's 7th Edition of Cartridge Reloading that IMR4227 gave the most consistent results in their carbine.

While I don't have a Rossi lever in .44 mag, I do have one in .357. The little gun is a tack driver with virtually any ammo I run thru it.

None, I understand that.

I have found thet when a powder is dirty it means the it wants more pressure. So I am figuring that it needs to be loaded near max and will limit the load range to try. Not saying I will never try it I just don't feel like trying it now. I want to try something on the faster side anyway. I picked up some #9 so I'll see what it will do.
Thanks for the post and hope I did not offend any 4227 fans.

 

[murf]

bullet tension is important here. the sized and belled case i.d. should be .004" less than bullet diameter for good powder ignition, regardless of powder used.

murf

 

[sugarmaker]

If you are getting 1inch groups (5 shot??) at 50 yards with a '92 you've gotten all there is to get. That's really good, call that gun a shooter and be happy.