44mag max load?

[Axis II]

I'm loading 44mag 240gr xtp for a H&R Handi rifle, new Starline brass, cci LPP magnums, IMR 4227. I started at Hornady book minimum and worked all the way up to 24gr with no foreseen issues. Hornady max is 24.3 while hodgdons is 24gr max for the same bullet.

Am I okay being at 24gr? This is a compressed load too when seated to book spec and crimped into the canelurre. my primers look fine, brass looks fine.

the other day at 23.6 I did notice that one of the primers was punched a little deeper by the firing pin and black but the other 10 loaded to the same charge didn't have that issue so I chocked it up to a fluke.

thanks for the help.

 

[jmorris]

I don't know what your OAL is but my hornady 4th ed. Has 25.3g of IMR 4227 as max for pistol loads, 25.4 for T/C loads. I would guess you are OK, unless your seating them too deep.

 

[Reloadron]

When you start low and work up all you care about is the accuracy and many times the accuracy comes in below a maximum charge. If you want to push your bullets faster then the best option is not to exceed your IMR 4227 load but to use a different powder, for example H 110 or Win 296. If you are asking if because things look good at a maximum should you exceed it? My answer would be nope. I loaded quite a bit of 44 Remington Magnum and my general go to powder was Win 296. That included loading 240 grain JHP bullets for my S&W Model 29 revolver and my old Ruger 44 Carbine rifle. While it was not the cleanest stuff it worked well for me in my guns.

Ron

 

[Cheesemaker]

Looking in the Hornady 8th & 9th edition for 240gr XTP - max IMR4227 is 23.7gr @ 1.600 COL
24.3gr is listed as max for T/C loads.

Ron is right - work loads up to max, find which is the most accurate and live with that one. Quite often the best is not the max.

 

[Axis II]

I don't know what your OAL is but my hornady 4th ed. Has 25.3g of IMR 4227 as max for pistol loads, 25.4 for T/C loads. I would guess you are OK, unless your seating them too deep.

my hornady book has a pistol page and rifle page. I was using the marlin rifle page. seating to 1.6-something I cant remember off hand but its what the book calls for.

 

[Axis II]

From 23gr-24gr I can put all 3 shots almost in the red bull of a 100yard rifle target. its very accurate even at 24gr. I was just worried about being at max per hodgdons and the book. i only fired 3 shots at that charge last night and they seemed fine and accurate.

 

[Schwing]

The fact that you worked them up is the good thing. If you don't see pressure signs, you should be ok though I would keep checking your brass and primers to see if any more primers look cratered or flattened. For me, even one would make me back down, even if it was maybe .1 or .2 grains.

I am not in any way advocating going above max published data. I rarely do it and never start my loads even close to max. Having said that, I found that my own cast 240 grain SWC .44s had the best accuracy just a tad bid over the maximum with blue dot. I had never previously tested this because they leaded horribly even using much lighter loads. I then discovered powder coating and was able to push them much harder without leading.

My 44s were the only caliber I cast and load for that actually had an increase in accuracy at max+ loads.

 

[mdi]

If you worked up the loads looking for high pressure, you'll prolly be OK. It's been many years since I used any 4227. My Hodgdon manual shows 24.0 as max for a 240 jacketed Noser bullet, so you are prolly safe.

I have been reloading the .44 Magnum for about 28 years and after I got over my case of "Magnumitus", I have no reason to go to, or close to maximum loads. I have 5, .44 Magnums and my 10" Contender gets the heaviest loads but far from max. (I don't have my load data here but the loads are upper mid way, 16-18 gr., WC820 and 265 gr. LRNF). Besides being easier, more fun to shoot, my guns aren't hammered by extra heavy loads. I don't need an extra 200 fps at the cost of numb hands and "loose" guns...

 

[jmorris]

was using the marlin rifle page.

The 4th has a rifle page too but they used the Ruger carbine. FWIW! I don't load to "TC" levels even for my TC, I like all of my 44 mag loads to be acceptable for all of my 44 magnum guns, one less thing to keep track of and avoid messing up down the road.

I have lots of stuff more powerful if I think I might need, even at starting loads. In my youth I would "hot rod" rounds, spending hours or even days working up loads, now I just get the next step up in cartridges and down load them to achieve the same power levels.

 

[Cheesemaker]

Which Marlin page? Which Hornady edition?
The 9th (and 8th) - in the rifle section 44Mag show IMR 4227 max @ 24.2gr for 240grXTP.

Sounds like accuracy is not an issue for you hunting gun though - all is done?

 

[buck460XVR]

You cannot get too much IMR4227 in a .44 case under a 240 gr bullet to be dangerous. You've already found that your load is compressed. Pressure is lower than a max charge of H110/W296. You will be just fine @ 24gr.

 

[Axis II]

Which Marlin page? Which Hornady edition?
The 9th (and 8th) - in the rifle section 44Mag show IMR 4227 max @ 24.2gr for 240grXTP.

Sounds like accuracy is not an issue for you hunting gun though - all is done?

9th edition and its in the rifle loading data area. I found one page for handgun and one for rifle. I don't have it in front of me but it was either marlin or ruger rifle used in the test.

I seen the 24.2gr but hodgdon says 24gr, either way I'm pushing the limits with both datas and want to be safe.

as far as accuracy goes at 23.6gr I can put 3 almost in one hole at 50yards center bulls eye and shot 6 of 24gr at 75yards and can put them in the center black circle on the corner bulls eye. I cant use a rear bag with this rifle cause the way our backstop is I cant see so just use a front bag.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...de4fd522f6176e15126079b2a243f3f7o0&ajaxhist=0

 

[Cheesemaker]

Sounds like you have the accuracy pony "kicked". Good for hunting.

I have the Hornady 9th edition- rifle section, no distinction between Marlin or Ruger loads. Testing done in a Ruger Carbine.

 

[Axis II]

Sounds like you have the accuracy pony "kicked". Good for hunting.

I have the Hornady 9th edition- rifle section, no distinction between Marlin or Ruger loads. Testing done in a Ruger Carbine.

that's accurate enough for me on a deer. I wasn't sure what rifle they used but remember 45-70 being a marlin rifle so I figured same with the 44mag. just want to be safe on my loads. heck I could kill a deer with a 22lr so I don't need super fast rounds but these big cornfed bucks we have do need some powder to put them down.

 

[jmorris]

If you can kill it with a .22 lr, a minimum 44 mag load from a rifle should do it but your never going to match the energy you can have with a Marlin 45-70 with any safe 44 mag load.

I have some pretty hot 45-70 loads that will put 3 into 1.5" at 100 yards out of my 1895 and at the same time a decent bruise on my shoulder, my 50 BMG has less felt recoil.

 

[buck460XVR]

I can put 3 almost in one hole at 50yards center bulls eye and shot 6 of 24gr at 75yards and can put them in the center black circle on the corner bulls eye. That's accurate enough for me on a deer.

..........and it's about all you can expect from a .44mag caliber round even from a rifle. My most accurate .44 mag loads with IMR4227 and 240 grainers come at just compressed to just slightly compressed. Seems to be your experience also. While many folks complain about it being dirty or that they cannot get the velocity from it as they get from H110/W296 or Lil' Gun, those extra 50-75 FPS mean little to me, when accuracy suffers. Seems you've found your sweetspot between the load and your rifle. Now all you need is to get a deer to stand in front of it.

 

[bluetopper]

That's my experience too..........you can't overload a 44 Magnum with 4227 powder.

 

[ArmedEagle]

When you start low and work up all you care about is the accuracy and many times the accuracy comes in below a maximum charge. If you want to push your bullets faster then the best option is not to exceed your IMR 4227 load but to use a different powder, for example H 110 or Win 296. If you are asking if because things look good at a maximum should you exceed it? My answer would be nope. I loaded quite a bit of 44 Remington Magnum and my general go to powder was Win 296. That included loading 240 grain JHP bullets for my S&W Model 29 revolver and my old Ruger 44 Carbine rifle. While it was not the cleanest stuff it worked well for me in my guns.

Ron

Ron, I'm a new member but I have some questions about loading IMR 4227 for 44 Mag. I've used W296 and it was fine. I'm not a novice reloader but I also haven't done as much as most people I see here. If I'm using Hornady cases (44 Mag) with Hornady 200 gr bullets, a charge of 26 grains is stated in my reloading data and when I throw that charge level, it looks like the case is pretty full, is this normal for this powder. I'm enclosing a picture of the case, charge and the bullet. Would this be safe in your opinion? Thanks, any help would be nice,
Gene

 

[RealGun]

If getting the accuracy you want at less than max, there seems little point in beating up the gun (and the shooter) with a stronger charge. Pretty good chance the energy calculation would indicate great peril to whatever you hit with it.

 

[Reloadron]

Ron, I'm a new member but I have some questions about loading IMR 4227 for 44 Mag. I've used W296 and it was fine. I'm not a novice reloader but I also haven't done as much as most people I see here. If I'm using Hornady cases (44 Mag) with Hornady 200 gr bullets, a charge of 26 grains is stated in my reloading data and when I throw that charge level, it looks like the case is pretty full, is this normal for this powder. I'm enclosing a picture of the case, charge and the bullet. Would this be safe in your opinion? Thanks, any help would be nice,
Gene
View attachment 228026

Looks about right. While I do not have any 4227 sitting here I can guess. IMR 4227 has a VMD (Volume Meter Density) of about 0.0769. The cc of the powder / Grains weight of powder = VMD A 44 Remington Magnum Case has a volume of approximately 2.53cc. IMR 4227 with a 200 grain bullet would be 24.5 grains start and 27.8 grains maximum. Your load of 26 grains * 0.0769 = 1.999 or 2.0 cc of volume. That charge will fill a generic 44 Magnum case to about 80% of case capacity. That looks close to what you have. You should also be using a good scale to check your powder throws.

Ron

 

[Dog Soldier]

How many people who shoot the classic .44 Mag. can handle a diet of max loads? Most often shooters can not remain consistent on a target while controlling heavy recoil.

 

[Reloadron]

How many people who shoot the classic .44 Mag. can handle a diet of max loads? Most often shooters can not remain consistent on a target while controlling heavy recoil.

Yeah, I have never seen a need to push my loads in my Model 29 or my rifle. I work a load for either till I get good accuracy for the given gun and call it at that. I also seldom use 300 grain bullets staying for the most part with the traditional 240 grain bullets.

Ron

 

[DeadEye9]

I don't know what your OAL is but my hornady 4th ed. Has 25.3g of IMR 4227 as max for pistol loads, 25.4 for T/C loads. I would guess you are OK, unless your seating them too deep.

This. ^^^
My typical target load is a good old Elmer Keith inspired Unique load. For my hunting Type loads in .44 though, I use IMR4227 and H110. When I use the IMR and a 240 XTP it's 24.8gr, and I use typical commercial brass (Federal, Remington, etc) not the premium stuff like Starline/Nosler. I also use CCI primers. I don't have any issues with this load as far as primers, case life has been decent and they always extract just fine. Your load is obviously less so as long as your not creeping below ~1.585" or so you should be fine. I've also done well with the 200gr XTP and 26gr. I load to 1.605" OAL. Also Blue Dot makes a decent load with the 240 XTP. I used the BD with a ladder of 14.3, 14.6, 15.0, 15.3, 15.5 and the 15.3 and 15.5 loads were nice.

 

[ArmedEagle]

Looks about right. While I do not have any 4227 sitting here I can guess. IMR 4227 has a VMD (Volume Meter Density) of about 0.0769. The cc of the powder / Grains weight of powder = VMD A 44 Remington Magnum Case has a volume of approximately 2.53cc. IMR 4227 with a 200 grain bullet would be 24.5 grains start and 27.8 grains maximum. Your load of 26 grains * 0.0769 = 1.999 or 2.0 cc of volume. That charge will fill a generic 44 Magnum case to about 80% of case capacity. That looks close to what you have. You should also be using a good scale to check your powder throws.

Ron

Thanks Ron! I actually have 2 scales I use. The RCSB 5.0.5 Beam scale as well a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 Digital Scale. I use these to double check each other.
I called the people at IMR Powders and "Mike" said pretty much the same thing except not in as much detail as you provided.
Thank you!
He said it's a slower burning powder which usually takes up more space capacity for any given charge. He said that's about right, don't worry about the powder actually contacting the bullet when seating, for this powder and bullet weight.

Gene

 

[Reloadron]

Thanks Ron! I actually have 2 scales I use. The RCSB 5.0.5 Beam scale as well a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 Digital Scale. I use these to double check each other.
I called the people at IMR Powders and "Mike" said pretty much the same thing except not in as much detail as you provided.
Thank you!
He said it's a slower burning powder which usually takes up more space capacity for any given charge. He said that's about right, don't worry about the powder actually contacting the bullet when seating, for this powder and bullet weight.

Gene

More than welcome and feel free to return to this forum anytime with questions.

Ron