ghitch75
Member
i pick 45C.....these runnin' around 1500fps does the trick(second from the left).......brought down a 1500lb black angus bull Tuesday.....4 5/8" Blackhawk......he wouldn't load...
.44 mag or .45 LC
- Thread starter LT.Diver
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Idaho Fish and Game put tracking collars on a couple black bears a few years ago and found that those two bears killed 15 and 17 elk calves. Granted this was before the wolf problem got really bad and not all black bears have the same habits.
Personally, I see bears as varmints. Killing bears who have little or no fear of man in your backyard is not such a bad option.
lobo9er
Member
Unless you hand load go with a 44 mag, that would be my choice. Could 200 gr 357 cor-bon Hunters tide you over till then? Thats my hiking go to load when I can find it.
BlindJustice
Member
Good on yah LTDiver
It's said S&W presented Elmer Keith with a pair of S&W N frame .44 Mag
4" bbl. serial numbers 2 & 3 - #1 went to the S&W Museum
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
helping - the 629 stainless is $ 50 less msrp
and the 329 4" ltwt alloy framed is $ 1,159
I'd like the 325 TR in .45 ACP since I can't handle the
recoil of .44 Mag much.
I had a 29-2 back in the 70s. with the 6 1/2" Bbl. len. I could
shoot clover leafs at 25 yards with that particular gun with the
old CCI Lawman 200 gr.. JHP that were > 1,500 fps
Traded it for a 25-2 should have kept em both.
R-
It's said S&W presented Elmer Keith with a pair of S&W N frame .44 Mag
4" bbl. serial numbers 2 & 3 - #1 went to the S&W Museum
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
helping - the 629 stainless is $ 50 less msrp
and the 329 4" ltwt alloy framed is $ 1,159
I'd like the 325 TR in .45 ACP since I can't handle the
recoil of .44 Mag much.
I had a 29-2 back in the 70s. with the 6 1/2" Bbl. len. I could
shoot clover leafs at 25 yards with that particular gun with the
old CCI Lawman 200 gr.. JHP that were > 1,500 fps
Traded it for a 25-2 should have kept em both.
R-
hardluk1
member
Check with your wildlife officer about the best way to handle a problem bear. No use takeing a chance of looseing your hunting rights or gun rights over it. I found rubber slugs work wonders for me two times over the years.
We have lots of black bears here and black bears get killed with 9mm's , and everything larger. Bb's are not tough to kill.
We have lots of black bears here and black bears get killed with 9mm's , and everything larger. Bb's are not tough to kill.
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Deaf Smith
Member
.44 Magnum.
Why?
That's why. Got mine.
I feel if you have a .44 magnum you don't need a .45 LC. And if you have a .45 LC, in a STRONG GUN, then you don't need a .44 magnum.
And I have my .44 already!
Deaf
Why?
That's why. Got mine.
I feel if you have a .44 magnum you don't need a .45 LC. And if you have a .45 LC, in a STRONG GUN, then you don't need a .44 magnum.
And I have my .44 already!
Deaf
dickydalton
Member
I have several of both and if I'm really scared I grab a 44. The Colt aint got the oomph. My 460 does too but is a little large to just carry.
greenmtnguy
Member
These are black bears in Mass. not Grizzlies in Alaska - I'm sure a 200 grn 357 will work on them, but a decent 45 Colt handload or factory Corbon/BuffaloBore 45 Colt load for strong revolvers will be more than adequate. Or the 44 Mag would work fine too - just get a regular Ruger Blackhawk or Early model Vaquero or Freedom Arms revolvers in 45 Colt if you go that route, and it will safely fire loads that will do anything the 44 Mag will do. If you need more penetration and energy than these, you aren't anywhere on the east coast. If you're going to shoot a bear with a handgun - you want to use hardcast lead or non-hollowpoint jacketed, tough bullets. In the 44 Mag or 45 Colt, use something in the 240gn - 300gn range -- and be SURE of what is behind the bear, cause these bullets will penetrate - alot - unless you hit some really heavy bone.
Try and find a .45 Colt Blackhawk convertible. That way you get the strong Blackhawk frame, plus an extra cylinder to shoot .45 ACP, it's a heck of a value and a lot of bang for your dollar.
.44 vs .45, it's not really a big deal for black bear. Your .357 Mag with the heavy 180gr hardcasts would work very well on black bear so you really don't NEED either. However, of those two I would have to pick the .45 Colt. Yes handloading will get you the most out of it, but that's with any cartrdige, including the .357 Mag, .44 Mag, etc.
If you want a big bore, might as well get a big bore and the .45 Colt is a bigger bullet for sure (.429" vs .452"). It does have the power advantage over the .44 Magnum, it's just a bigger case that can hold more powder, it's that simple. No doubt some .44's are VERY HOT, but they're loaded to astronomical pressures, likely rivaling 454 Casull pressures. But in the end, you don't need a wrist snapping heavy load to kill a black bear. If you don't handload, warm .45 Colts can be had via Buffalo Bore, Grizzly cartridge, and a few other places. If you don't handload and don't feel like buying your ammo online, maybe sticking with the .44 would be a better bet as it would be more likely to find on the shelf in the store, at least loads loaded warmer anyways as most of the .45 Colt you find on the shelves is about the equivalent to the .45 ACP.
Or, if you can scrape together a few hundred more dollars you can buy a Magnum Research BFR chambered in 454 Casull, or 475 Linebaugh, even the 500 JRH (and 500 S&W) if you want real big bore, but I think the beauty of the .44 Mag and .45 Colt is that they have all the power you or anyone else really needs for 99.999% of all hunting situations.
.44 vs .45, it's not really a big deal for black bear. Your .357 Mag with the heavy 180gr hardcasts would work very well on black bear so you really don't NEED either. However, of those two I would have to pick the .45 Colt. Yes handloading will get you the most out of it, but that's with any cartrdige, including the .357 Mag, .44 Mag, etc.
If you want a big bore, might as well get a big bore and the .45 Colt is a bigger bullet for sure (.429" vs .452"). It does have the power advantage over the .44 Magnum, it's just a bigger case that can hold more powder, it's that simple. No doubt some .44's are VERY HOT, but they're loaded to astronomical pressures, likely rivaling 454 Casull pressures. But in the end, you don't need a wrist snapping heavy load to kill a black bear. If you don't handload, warm .45 Colts can be had via Buffalo Bore, Grizzly cartridge, and a few other places. If you don't handload and don't feel like buying your ammo online, maybe sticking with the .44 would be a better bet as it would be more likely to find on the shelf in the store, at least loads loaded warmer anyways as most of the .45 Colt you find on the shelves is about the equivalent to the .45 ACP.
Or, if you can scrape together a few hundred more dollars you can buy a Magnum Research BFR chambered in 454 Casull, or 475 Linebaugh, even the 500 JRH (and 500 S&W) if you want real big bore, but I think the beauty of the .44 Mag and .45 Colt is that they have all the power you or anyone else really needs for 99.999% of all hunting situations.
even in that link the 44mag still out performed the 45colt. 1267 was the highest energy for the 45colt. 1649 was the highest energy for the 44mag. even if you take the average energy the 44mag still wins. also with 44mag you don't have to worry about blowing up your gun.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Oh, come on! There are great factory loads in .45 Colt! Handloading is NOT the only way to go here if one does not want to or does not have the reloading setup.
Presuming, of course, that one can find it in stock. Here are several examples that will stack up against any comparable .44 Magnum:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/50-rounds-454-casull-325-grain-wfn.aspx?a=892633
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...t-long-colt-p-260-grain-jacketed-hollow-point
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/25...g-colt-300-grain-jacketed-flat-nose-box-of-50
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...ain-bonded-core-jacketed-flat-point-box-of-20
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/51...-360-grain-wide-flat-nose-gas-check-box-of-20
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/25...ong-colt-p-335-grain-wide-flat-nose-gas-check
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...olt-long-colt-p-325-grain-lead-long-flat-nose
Well put!
RetiredUSNChief
Member
*ahem*
I present to you the Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver:
.600 caliber
900 grains
1,950 fps
And a MONSTER 7,591 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
All for the paltry price of $17,000!
THIS, my friend, will stop a charging brown bear. Heck, it'd stop a runaway locomotive! One shot from this and you'll have several hundred pounds of jerked bear meat wrapped in a tanned bear skin rug.
Provided, of course, you can bring this 13 1/4 pound monstrosity to bear on said bear in time...
Of course, I'm not sure which would be worse: shooting the gun or getting mauled by the bear. It'd be a pretty close call...
Attachments
It is widely argued that KE is not how handguns - especially big-bore handguns - kill or incapacitate animals (or people).
lobo9er
Member
Finding 45LC in stock is the kicker and unless you have Ruger SBH or like Revolver you may be picking pieces of metal out of your hand or face. But even more tame 45LC probably would be more than fine. Bigger hole... But for me I like a 44 mag as of late and usually load up with 44 spl any how when carrying as a side arm hunting. But I too would like a 45 in the line up at some point.
Nathan Detroit
Member
- Joined
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- 92
Foggy Mountain Guide Service in Maine is known for its black bear hunts. The owner, Wayne Boskowitz, carried a .41 mag for years and years. When it came time to replace it, he got a .44 Mag, not because the .41 didn't work, but because his local dealer had the .44 in a Mountain Gun configuration and not the .41. He maintained that any gun that had a bore of .40+ caliber and could throw a 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps would reliably take black bear.
Focus on the job at hand and any of those guns (.41, .44, .45) will work. You don't need Cape Buffalo loads either. There are plenty of factory loads that will work, that are not hard on the guns and are not that hard to find. Also, any black bear load will also take whitetail if that is your desire in your state.
Focus on the job at hand and any of those guns (.41, .44, .45) will work. You don't need Cape Buffalo loads either. There are plenty of factory loads that will work, that are not hard on the guns and are not that hard to find. Also, any black bear load will also take whitetail if that is your desire in your state.
il.bill
Member
That is a dandy photo in Post #32. http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9415941&postcount=31
Sure, if I have one I do not really need the other, but I think that 'need' plays a small part in most (not all) firearm purchases. I do not need both a .45 Colt and a .44 Magnum, but I sure want one of each!
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il.bill
Member
Either way, I would not want to be a bear in LT. Diver's backyard.
Be safe and good luck!
Be safe and good luck!
DoctorBoom
Member
I choose the 44 magnum; the cartridge is very versatile, but I also choose it in part because I love the S&W model 29/629. I have 6" 29-3 that has the smoothest double-action trigger of any revolver I've ever fired. And I have a newer 4" 629 that I use as a trail gun here in the Rockies; the newer 629's trigger is not quite as smooth as the older 29, but it is still very good.
If you happen to love a good double-action, then go 44 magnum start lovin' on the 29/629...
If you happen to love a good double-action, then go 44 magnum start lovin' on the 29/629...
That pretty much sums it up. The reason to own is bears. Niether is really enough and both are the most handgun I want to buy, shoot and find ammo for.
.357 magnum doesn't come close and I'd rather have a 44 special than a .357 mag.
44 mag and 44 spl make pretty good companions for the reloader, too.
Hondo 60
Member
I'd definitely go with the 44 magnum.
A 45 Colt is gonna go abt 850 -950 fps.
44 magnum ammo can go 1300+ fps.
I'd be afraid of just makin' him or her mad with 45 Colt.
A 45 Colt is gonna go abt 850 -950 fps.
44 magnum ammo can go 1300+ fps.
I'd be afraid of just makin' him or her mad with 45 Colt.
With blackpowder in a Colt clone, I get nearly 1000 fps with a 260 grain cast lead bullet. Unique powder will duplicate these results as will any number of powders, in clones. In one of the heavy Ruger revolvers you can get a lot more fps but it is not needed.
plmitch
Member
I'm very happy with my .45lc, great to reload and cast bullets for it.
greenmtnguy
Member
The old blackpowder 45 Colt load will also penetrate 12 1-inch thick pine boards. In a Ruger, stepping it up a little, you can easily get a 250gr hardcast to 1300 FPS, or a 300gn hardcast to 1000 FPS - these will go completely through an elk sideways, or through a whitetail deer, lengthways. I don't think there is any lack of penetration with a 45 Colt, or 44 Mag, with similar bullets. Just don't go using any of those sissy hollowpoints on the bear... ;-)
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