.44 mag or .45 LC

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'd definitely go with the 44 magnum.
A 45 Colt is gonna go abt 850 -950 fps.
44 magnum ammo can go 1300+ fps.

I'd be afraid of just makin' him or her mad with 45 Colt.

*sigh*

What is it with all the people on this site who think that the .45 Colt is only capable of "850 -950 fps", or other such namby-pamby fodder?

The original Black Powder loading pushed a 250 grain bullet at 1,000 fps. The ONLY reasons "Cowboy loads" are so prevalent have to do with maintaining ammunition safe for use in the older .45 Colt pistols AND for competition cowboy shooting where shooting a lot of higher powered rounds would be much harder on control and the hands doing all that shooting.

Modern guns chambered in .45 Colt aren't subject to the same limitations as the older ones. They'll easily match, and even exceed, .44 Magnum performance. There are plenty of commercially available loadings which do just this.

Sheesh, people!

:banghead:

 

[stressed]

As said above, +P .45 colt is a whole different animal then standard .45 colt. View .45 colt as .44 special, and +P .45 colt as .44 magnum or above. Double tap makes a 360 grain hardcast .45 colt load moving at 1200 fps. Out of a rifle that's basicaly 1500ft lbs.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_201&product_id=434

ghitch75, was said angus charging you? otherwise culling them is moot, as I cull 1500+ bovine here with 9mm ball, complete with exit.

 

[stressed]

///

 

[silicosys4]

Modern guns chambered in .45 Colt aren't subject to the same limitations as the older ones. They'll easily match, and even exceed, .44 Magnum performance. There are plenty of commercially available loadings which do just this.

Sheesh, people!

:banghead:

I don't agree that all modern guns are good to go with hot .45 Colt loads. Neither do any of my reloading manuals. I suspect if you shot a modern gun other than a Ruger or T/C apart or even loose with heavy .45 Colt loads and explained to the manufacturer that you were shooting loads that were significantly over SAAMI specs as required to meet the performance of the .44 magnum that they would decline to replace your firearm under warranty. I can shoot commercial .44 magnum level rounds out of any .44 magnum all day long without worrying about voiding the warranty.

As far as the availability of commercially loaded .45 Colt ammo that matches or exceeds .44 magnum, your own links to Ballistics101.com says otherwise. A quick comparison reveals the majority of COMMONLY AVAILABLE commercial .45 Colt loads do not even come close to the mildest COMMONLY AVAILABLE commercial .44 magnum loads. Unless of course by "widely available" you mean a few loads from a handful of manufacturers only available by mail order and almost impossible to find in the average store. The nearest shop that carries ammo from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and Cor-Bon is 2 hours away from me. Or I can drive 10 blocks and pick up some .44 magnum ammo that is at .44 magnum level.... and maybe sitting beside it is a box or two of .45 Colt loads running at 800-900 fps. So I think our definitions of "widely available" differ.

Modern revolvers are limited by the exact same thing as older revolvers...cylinder wall thickness and the quality/treatment of the steel. A New Vaquero is not any safer to shoot high pressure loads than any other .45 Colt revolver with thin cylinder walls just because it was made last week instead of 50 years ago. In many cases, modern guns that are manufactured for .45 Colt are not given the same treatment as guns manufactured for .44 magnum. Ruger makes their .454 Casull Super Redhawk out of an even tougher tool steel than their .44 magnum Super Redhawk.
There are only a handful of handguns I out of which I would consider it safe to shoot .45 Colt loads that match .44 magnum performance, and only three out of which I would shoot loads exceeding .44 magnum performance....All of them Rugers, Freedom Arms, or T/C's

An interesting article from Chuck Hawks on the subject;

http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

" For many years Smith & Wesson built a .45 Colt DA revolver on their large "N" frame that looked nearly identical to their .44 Magnum Model 29. I have been asked specifically about this revolver in the past, as their owners sometimes conclude that if the Model 29 can withstand the 36,000 psi (43,500 cup) of a .44 Magnum cartridge, their revolvers should be able to withstand the same pressure. BUT THEY CANNOT!

The reason is that the Model 29 is made from special alloy steel specially heat treated to withstand .44 Magnum pressures. S&W themselves have put this in writing in their advertisements, and a talk with one of their technicians will confirm it. NEVER use any high pressure .45 Colt load in a S&W revolver. They are designed to handle standard pressure .45 Colt loads ONLY.

The original model Ruger Vaquero is a fixed sight variation of the Blackhawk and falls under the "Blackhawk" classification, as is the Ruger Bisley version of the Blackhawk. These are cosmetic variations capable of handling the same pressure as the standard Blackhawk, and fall under the general heading of "Ruger Blackhawk revolvers." The "New Model" Vaquero, introduced at the end of 2004 primarily for cowboy action shooters (who use only low pressure loads), is built on a smaller frame--much like a Colt SAA--and is not recommended for high pressure loads.

The authors of the major reloading manuals were aware that there are modern guns other than the Blackhawk and Contender that are chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge. These include not only the Colt Single Action Army, Colt Cowboy, and the various replicas thereof, but the DA Colt Anaconda, Ruger Redhawk, aforementioned "N" frame S&W, and others. But no exception is made for any of these guns, not even the excellent Anaconda and Redhawk. Clearly, FOR BLACKHAWK AND CONTENDER ONLY means just that!

The following quote is from the section of the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13 devoted to high pressure .45 Colt loads, and reinforces this point.

"IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE. These loads are intended for use only in Ruger Blackhawk and Vaquero revolvers, and the Thompson/Center Contender. They are not to be used in any other make or model of firearm!"

The Hornady Handbook, 3rd Edition prefaces their high pressure data with this simple statement: "The following data is to be used only in the T/C or the Ruger Blackhawk."

My copy of the Sierra Handgun Reloading Manual makes this blunt statement in the first paragraph of their section devoted to high pressure .45 Colt loads.

"The data on the following pages were developed for use in the Ruger Blackhawk and the Thompson/Center Contender pistol in .45 Colt caliber. Both of these pistols are of stronger construction than any of the other makes chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge."


And from John Linebaugh

"This entire report is based on facts proven in the popular and strong Ruger Blackhawks and Bisley models chambered for the .45 Colt Cartridge. I have felt a need for a long time to set the record straight as to the full safe potential of this fine gun and round. This material is not about Colt SAA, Dakotas, or any other import. These are fine guns in their own realm, but require safe, carefully assembled handloads of much LESS PRESSURE than we are talking about in the Ruger Revolvers."

" By careful measurement and a little simple mathematics we find that the Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt caliber is approximately 80 % as strong as the Blackhawk in .44 magnum caliber."

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[stressed]

^

yet there are gunsmiths who convert the redhawk .45 lc to .454 casull, which eclipses .44 mag, so one doesn't have to get a bulky super redhawk?

 

[silicosys4]

^

yet there are gunsmiths who convert the redhawk .45 lc to .454 casull, which eclipses .44 mag, so one doesn't have to get a bulky super redhawk?

There are gunsmiths who will accept payment to do many things I wouldn't want done. Simply boring and rechambering a gun for a round that is four times the pressure of the original, when the manufacturer won't offer the same on the basis of safety, is one of them.
Again though, it goes back to the actual physical dimensions of the cylinder, and/or the heat treatment/metal used. Every converted .454 casull RH I've read about is either a cylinder swap from a .454 SRH or a 5 shot custom cylinder. I have read that the reason Ruger went with a different steel for the .454 casull SRH than the .44 magnum was because of the lack of safety margin in the burst strength of the standard SRH steel when used with .454 casull. Yes, the steel would generally be accepted to hold, but when you are holding 60k psi in your hand, Ruger decided that a 90K psi burst strength cylinder was not enough headroom, so went with a tool steel that would take 100k psi plus. That's a fine enough line with a high pressure round with enough potential for deviation that they didn't want to go there. "A gunsmith" who has probably never been hit with a safety lawsuit in their life is not Ruger, which has done actual testing of material strength.


"Yes the Super Redhawk even though it is chambered in .454 Casull, and even though both Freedom Arms and Taurus use five-shot cylinders, will be a true sixgun with six cartridge holes in the unfluted cylinder. I know the question will be asked so we will handle it right now. NO! The .44 Super Redhawk should not be re-chambered to .454. When I called Ruger and asked them what changes were made to accommodate the newer, higher pressure cartridge, they informed me of two major changes. The steel used in the KSRH-7454 (Model number assigned to the Super Redhawk .454) is of a higher grade than that used for the .44 Magnum model, and the heat treating is different. Neither of these can be duplicated by any gunsmith that would convert the .44 to .454 and Ruger, of course, will not convert any existing guns to .454"

http://www.sixguns.com/range/454_super_redhawk.htm

A .454 cylinder swap sounds like one handfull of a RH though.

Oh I guess I should add that I vote for the .44 magnum, it will do everything that a .45 Colt will do, while being easier to find "magnum" ammo for, and you will not have to worry about your "magnum" ammo taking apart your non magnum gun.
That extra .013" is not some voodoo magic that causes animals to fall down dead, and imo it is certainly not worth running so overpressure simply to play "me too" with the .44 magnum when there is nothing to gain in effectiveness
A 1200fps 325 gr .44 magnum or overpressure 1200 fps 350 gr. 45 Colt are going to do the exact same thing to the animal they hit. The only difference is, one is far over SAAMI and not safe to shoot in every gun chambered for it.

 

[ghitch75]

I'd definitely go with the 44 magnum.
A 45 Colt is gonna go abt 850 -950 fps.
44 magnum ammo can go 1300+ fps.

I'd be afraid of just makin' him or her mad with 45 Colt.

look at post 26....

 

[ghitch75]

ghitch75, was said angus charging you? otherwise culling them is moot, as I cull 1500+ bovine here with 9mm ball, complete with exit.

as i said he wouldn't load to the butcher......one 45 to the forehead and he loaded with a backhoe......yes a 9mm point blank will work.....i couldn't get that close and he had been known to charge......

 

[SDGlock23]

*sigh*

What is it with all the people on this site who think that the .45 Colt is only capable of "850 -950 fps", or other such namby-pamby fodder?

Several guesses come to mind. First is that most just don't know any better, they truly think the .44 is much more powerful. Usually they compare ammo from the big three to come to their conclusions (and almost certainly aren't handloaders), so I'm guessing most of it is ignorance. And it's not just with the .44 Mag vs .45 Colt, it's real bad with other cartridge comparisons too, many people just have it wrong and they don't even know it.

Second guess is that based on the post you quoted from Hondo60, it was a very generic post that seemed to emphasize only one thing, velocity. Many, many folks are simply interested in velocity, and nothing much else matters, because velocity gets them energy and they put way too much focus on energy. They don't realize that with big heavy bullets (hardcasts specifically), that you don't need big velocity to get big penetration, they're just concerned with "energy".

Third guess is that they just post such things to rile up proponents of the other cartridge.

 

[rclark]

if you get a vaquero- get the older heavier frame size in 45 colt- they handle the ruger 45 colt loads whereas the new smaller frame is not as stout

FYI, Brian Pearce's son took a Black Bear hunting last year with a Ruger medium frame BH (same as the New Vaquero frame for those that don't know). Very good results. The medium frame revolvers can handle what is referred to as Tier 2 loads (up to 23K psi) which is plenty for most applications. That gets a 250-270g bullet up to around 1100fps which is nothing to sneeze at.

Here is more data on Tier 2 loads for those that don't know.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf

I chose .45 Colt every time, but then I am a hand loader and load what I want to shoot, not what is available on the 'shelf'.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

First round bean bag load. Hard hitting and non lethal.

Shooting a pissed off bear with a bean bag sounds like a terrible idea.
He's not wanting to just scare them away, he's wanting to carry for protection. He's not going to shoot one unless it comes at him.

 

[Jim Watson]

I agree with Deaf Smith. If you are a handloader, you don't need to debate between .44 and .45. Pick the gun you like best or the best deal or the one in stock.

Me?
I have the .44. A friend got the same results with an overloaded .45.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I don't agree that all modern guns are good to go with hot .45 Colt loads. Neither do any of my reloading manuals. I suspect if you shot a modern gun other than a Ruger or T/C apart or even loose with heavy .45 Colt loads and explained to the manufacturer that you were shooting loads that were significantly over SAAMI specs as required to meet the performance of the .44 magnum that they would decline to replace your firearm under warranty. I can shoot commercial .44 magnum level rounds out of any .44 magnum all day long without worrying about voiding the warranty.

As far as the availability of commercially loaded .45 Colt ammo that matches or exceeds .44 magnum, your own links to Ballistics101.com says otherwise. A quick comparison reveals the majority of COMMONLY AVAILABLE commercial .45 Colt loads do not even come close to the mildest COMMONLY AVAILABLE commercial .44 magnum loads. Unless of course by "widely available" you mean a few loads from a handful of manufacturers only available by mail order and almost impossible to find in the average store. The nearest shop that carries ammo from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, and Cor-Bon is 2 hours away from me. Or I can drive 10 blocks and pick up some .44 magnum ammo that is at .44 magnum level.... and maybe sitting beside it is a box or two of .45 Colt loads running at 800-900 fps. So I think our definitions of "widely available" differ.

(Lots of good stuff removed for space considerations.)

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

Pardon me for removing much of what you posted for my response. It was very good, but a complete repost would have been unnecessary and a bit excessive in space (especially with it conveniently located on the same page as my response).

You do have some very good, and quite valid, points. However, it kinda misses my point, which wasn't aimed at claiming the .45 Colt to be "the best" or "better than the .44 magnum". My point is that many people seem to dismiss the .45 Colt out of either ignorance or misunderstanding of the cartridge. You'll note, for example, that I'm not advocating a particular gun...I'm talking about the cartridge. Perhaps I should have made that clearer...for example, I was not thinking of the late generations Colt SAA as a "modern gun" designed for higher pressure .45 Colt loadings. My apologies for this.


Guns chambered in the .44 magnum are ALL built to take the pressures that cartridge is capable of producing for a reason: the cartridge itself was deliberately developed such that it would NOT chamber in guns designed to shoot the .44 Special, the cartridge that the .44 magnum evolved from. It's too long a cartridge. This was deliberate, as I said, because they did not want anybody to ever make the mistake of chambering a .44 magnum in a .44 Special.

Remington and S&W also took a big chance in the development of this cartridge and a gun which could shoot it. A big chance, I say, because developing a different cartridge that will be successful in the market is one thing...but developing a different cartridge AND a different gun that will be successful in the market is quite another. Perhaps this is why two gun manufacturers went in on this together...to both minimize the risk and to increase the market appeal.

The .45 Colt, however, never went down this evolutionary path, if you want to call it this. This cartridge is, classically, a revolver cartridge. It's not a pistol cartridge. The revolver market is an exceedingly difficult market in which to introduce something new that is economically sustainable. Like it or not, revolver sales simply are nowhere near the volume of pistol sales. Plus revolvers have been around for a LOOOOOOONG time and, other than some odd novelty or other, there simply aren't any radically new innovations that can be introduced which would attract a significant following.

So Colt, and other revolver manufacturers in this caliber, made an economic decision never to develop a .45 magnum cartridge or pistol in the same way in which Remington and S&W developed the .44 magnum. It simply was not likely to take root enough in the market to justify it.

HOWEVER, there WERE some manufacturers who decided to make guns chambered for the .45 Colt which COULD hold up to these pressures. And they did.

There isn't any SAAMI accepted .45 Colt standard for higher pressure loads, which is why all the major .45 Colt ammunition manufacturers stick to what most people call "Cowboy loads". The reason for this is very likely because there are so many guns floating around and on the market which are chambered for this round which cannot all be assumed to safely handle higher pressures. If a longer cartridge had been developed, such that they could no longer be chambered in the existing guns, then there would have been a different SAMMI standard.

Which is why the +P ammunition for the .45 Colt carries such warnings as you mentioned...so people will NOT fire them from guns which cannot handle the pressures.

But ballistics performance isn't all about maximum chamber pressures. Maximum chamber pressures are not directly comparable with respect to equating performance when you change calibers. Thus, the .45 Colt has an advantage over the .44 magnum because the larger caliber means a higher performance at lower pressures.

And your list of guns which can handle higher pressure .45 Colt cartridges is a little short. Cor-Bon has this to say about their ".45 Colt Magnum +P" loads:

"This is NOT plinking ammo, this load should only be used in those guns that have the steel to handle the power. Guns in .45 Colt that are built on heavy duty frames, such as the Ruger, Freedom Arms, Colt Anaconda, and Thompson-Center Contender will handle this load with authority. This load is NOT intended for handguns such as older Smith & Wesson, Colt Single Action Army, or the Colt clones imported single action revolvers. Common sense needs to prevail! THIS IS NOT COWBOY AMMO!"


As with anything involving any given cartridge, it is very important to match the cartridge with a gun which will give the desired performance. This is no less important for the .44 magnum than it is for the .45 Colt. For example, there are .44 magnum handguns with barrels as short as 2 inches. Certainly this would be a poor match for the use discussed here, even with cartridges loaded for use in short barrels.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html



BOTTOM LINE:

The .45 Colt is fully capable of matching or exceeding the ballistics characteristics of the .44 magnum and is thus a cartridge just as suitable for use on bears as the .44 magnum would be...provided it, like the .44 magnum, is mated up with a suitable gun.

 

[silicosys4]

As with anything involving any given cartridge, it is very important to match the cartridge with a gun which will give the desired performance. This is no less important for the .44 magnum than it is for the .45 Colt. For example, there are .44 magnum handguns with barrels as short as 2 inches. Certainly this would be a poor match for the use discussed here, even with cartridges loaded for use in short barrels.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html



BOTTOM LINE:

The .45 Colt is fully capable of matching or exceeding the ballistics characteristics of the .44 magnum and is thus a cartridge just as suitable for use on bears as the .44 magnum would be...provided it, like the .44 magnum, is mated up with a suitable gun.

Great post, and I would see why you would be a .454 casull fan if you are. However, I feel that you are making the same argument that people make when loading .44 special rounds as hot as .44 magnum rounds. If you want a .44 magnum, buy a .44 magnum, and if you want a .452 round that meets or beats the .44 magnum, buy a .454 casull and voila, you can handload anything from cowboy .45 colt to rounds that leave the .44 magnum in their dust. It really does come down to a question of personal preferences and comfort level when choosing if you handload. I will definitely agree that 25-28k psi for the hot .45 Colt for the same performance as the .44 magnums 32k psi, but 25k psi is still way over SAAMI max for the cartridge, and you are still creating a potentially dangerous situation for rounds making their way into guns too weak to handle them.

As far as the short barrel .44 magnum being less than ideal for the job...honestly, I would pick my 2 3/4" .44 magnum over anything else I've got for a bear protection gun for black bear. I get well over 1150 fps with 240 grain handloads that are under max, and over 1050 fps with 300 grain handloads under max... and would be just as effective as any .45 colt load out of the same length barrel, and it carries very easily. Either of those loads will be sufficient for blackies, and if you need more, I'd carry a rifle rather than a hotter load from a bigger gun.
As far as I know, we are talking about black bears in Mass. Honestly, a .357 with heavy hardcasts is enough protection from black bears imo.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Great post, and I would see why you would be a .454 casull fan if you are. However, I feel that you are making the same argument that people make when loading .44 special rounds as hot as .44 magnum rounds. If you want a .44 magnum, buy a .44 magnum, and if you want a .452 round that meets or beats the .44 magnum, buy a .454 casull and you don't have to worry about it.

As far as the short barrel .44 magnum being less than ideal for the job...honestly, I would pick my 2 3/4" .44 magnum over anything else I've got for a bear protection gun for black bear. I forget my loading data off the top of my head but I get well over 1150 fps with 240 grain handloads that are under max, and over 1050 fps with 300 grain handloads under max... and would be just as effective if not more so than any .45 colt load out of the same length barrel, and it carries very easily.

Heh! Thanks for the compliment, but no...I'm not a .454 Casull fan. Not because I don't admire the gun or the cartridge, but because I'm particular about esthetics. It just doesn't have that inherent beauty which appeals to me, fine gun though it is.



And no...I'm not making, nor do I intend to make, any such arguments about the .44 Special being loaded hotter. There was a reason the .44 magnum was developed the way it was...such that those who wanted a smoking hot .44 could have it in a gun made to shoot it safely. Personally, if such people want to load a .44 Special hot, they can have at it all they want...so long as they shoot it from a .44 magnum revolver built to handle the pressures their loading will develop.

And your example of your short barreled .44 magnum with a loading specifically developed for it is a perfect example of matching the cartridge to the gun. I'll bet it's a beauty! Especially if it's a S&W (which makes many revolvers which I DO find very beautiful).


For the record, I have no revolver...yet. But I'm working on it. My dream revolver is the Colt SAA in .45 Colt, color case hardened, and 5.5 inch barrel. I'm not after power with this...I'm after the exquisite beauty of the gun, which I feel is unmatched by any other revolver ever made.

 

[horsemen61]

I'd go with hard cast lead either way you go ymmv

 

[silicosys4]

Those rounds aren't loaded specifically for the snub, they are the .44 magnum loads I run through my SRH, and I make them by the hundreds for range fun and hunting. They just happen to run plenty hot enough for black bear out of my short barrel gun. They do lose a lot of velocity as compared to the SRH...1150 fps as compared to 1350 fps, but hey, a 2 3/4" .45 colt would be hard pressed to do the same....if you could even find a short barreled DA revolver capable of handling those loads in .45 colt.

If I were to get a .45 colt, a color case hardened SAA would be my pick indeed. The round and the gun are perfectly suited for each other, and a good tier 2 .45 Colt loading is nothing to sneeze at.

Realistically, its all just a numbers game, neither will outperform the other on critters. I just prefer to "draw within the lines" so to speak, when it comes to loading. The same argument could be used for the .44 magnum...push it to the same level over SAAMI as a ruger load .45 colt, 50% or so, or roughly 50k psi, and is the comparison still valid?

The final fact remains...In hotrodding .45 Colt, you are asking the cartridge to do something it was never meant or designed to do. Your case life will be much shorter with hotrodded .45 colt loads than with .44 magnum loads. I just see no practical benefit, just a slightly bigger diameter to brag about, and many downfalls.... so I can only give the nod to the .44 magnum. The .44 magnum is also more accurate....silhouette shooters prefer the .44 magnum afaik

 

[AJumbo]

After an informal poll of my friends who have used either or both calibers on bear, the consensus seems to be that it's a wash. Either will do the same job, from the bear's perspective. If you like heavier bullets, then go with the .45; the .44 can give slightly higher velocities. Garrett and Buffalo Bore can both supply excellent bear pills.

Just curious- how many of the respondents here are basing their replies on the performance of a single round hitting the bear? Was it me, and I was tied down to the six rounds my Vaquero Bisley holds, I would pour four, maybe five, into the critter, then re-evaluate before emptying the pistol anyway. Bears don't just topple over...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

RetiredUSNChief and silicosys4 both make some very good points.

I think one thing to remember here (forgive me if it was mentioned and I missed it) is that the reason the .45 Colt wasn't converted to a .45 "magnum" is that the case was long enough for it already. Unlike the .44, the .45 Colt was originally loaded with black powder, thus when used with smokeless powder the case often times has quiet a bit of empty space. Because of this, the case itself is already capable of the higher power (I know some of the older cases had issues, but that is fixed). It's just a matter of the guns being able to handle them.

 

[silicosys4]

RetiredUSNChief and silicosys4 both make some very good points.

I think one thing to remember here (forgive me if it was mentioned and I missed it) is that the reason the .45 Colt wasn't converted to a .45 "magnum" is that the case was long enough for it already. Unlike the .44, the .45 Colt was originally loaded with black powder, thus when used with smokeless powder the case often times has quiet a bit of empty space. Because of this, the case itself is already capable of the higher power (I know some of the older cases had issues, but that is fixed). It's just a matter of the guns being able to handle them.

The .44 special can indeed be loaded to at or near magnum velocities. The reason for the .44 magnum case length was simply to prevent "magnum" loads from going into "special" guns as would have inevitably happened with just magnumizing the .44 special with the same case length...There is enough case capacity to get near magnum velocities out of the .44 special. The powder at the time the special was invented was a "semi smokeless" powder and still needed a lot of case capacity as it wasn't as efficient as modern smokeless.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The .44 special can indeed be loaded to at or near magnum velocities. The reason for the .44 magnum case length was simply to prevent "magnum" loads from going into "special" guns as would have inevitably happened with just magnumizing the .44 special with the same case length...There is enough case capacity to get near magnum velocities out of the .44 special. The powder at the time the special was invented was a "semi smokeless" powder and still needed a lot of case capacity as it wasn't as efficient as modern smokeless.

Exactly.

The .44 magnum case is only 1/8 inch longer than the .44 Special. Not all that much difference, and even less so with the more modern smokeless powders.

 

[Deaf Smith]

That is a dandy photo in Post #32. http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9415941&postcount=31

Sure, if I have one I do not really need the other, but I think that 'need' plays a small part in most (not all) firearm purchases. I do not need both a .45 Colt and a .44 Magnum, but I sure want one of each!

I know Bill.

I use the .44 cause it's cool to tote in the woods. Shoots like a dream with .44 Spl. powered reloads.

Do I NEED it? Yea, cause it makes me happy and making me happy is healthy, right?

And I do have .357s, .45 Autos, 9mms, and others (including two .44 Magnum mountain guns.)

But I chose this one to be my 'real' field gun.

I like to be in style!

Deaf

 

[CraigC]

the 45 is a step backwards with about half the power of a 357mag.

Completely untrue.

The .45 Colt can easily outperform both of these other cartridges, and at lower pressures, as well.

No true either. With the .45Colt loaded to "Ruger only" levels, the two are at a dead heat. With the .44 utilizing slightly heavier for diameter bullets at slightly higher velocities and the .45 having a slightly larger diameter. It's a wash between the two and no critter will ever tell the difference.

The vaquro doesn't have the robust top strap frame
and it's a model for Cowboy Action shooting with it's
fixed sights. With the Blackhawk the W&E adj. rear
sight can be adjusted for the load.

The large frame Vaquero is just fine for "Ruger only" loads.

Both are as nasty as they come when they get where they are going...

The RCBS is a fine bullet for the .45Colt but the Lyman's meplat is way too small. A good LFN or WFN will do a better job than either.

If you want a big bore, might as well get a big bore and the .45 Colt is a bigger bullet for sure (.429" vs .452"). It does have the power advantage over the .44 Magnum, it's just a bigger case that can hold more powder, it's that simple. No doubt some .44's are VERY HOT, but they're loaded to astronomical pressures, likely rivaling 454 Casull pressures.

Ruger only loads come close but never catch heavy .44Mag loads and that is at STANDARD pressures.

Handloading is NOT the only way to go here if one does not want to or does not have the reloading setup.

It is if you want to shoot enough to be proficient. If you just want to shoot a box and carry the last six, then you're good.

 

[Badlander]

Good reading from John Linebaughs world. I pick the .45 Colt.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[CraigC]

Linebaugh's article is biased and outdated. It was written in the `80's and quite a bit has changed since then. Very good on the .45's capability but lacking in its comparison to the .44Mag. Hodgdon's data has all the truth you need.