44 magnum, too much "neck tension" for cast

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R.W.Dale

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I have been working through getting a Marlin 1894 and ruger redhawk to shoot my powdercoated Lee 240g TL SWC bullets.

As usual the Marlin has very generous bore measurements. To get it to group I've opened up my .430 push through sizer to nearly .432" and laid the PC on thick with most satisfactory results.

The main issue I have now is my Lee size die takes the case down to .426" making for a very tight seating operation that I'm concerned may be swaging my bullets down.

Can you guys recommend a sizer or expander that will either size the case down less or expand the internal diameter larger.
 
uhh.. Short of getting one turned, I'm not sure you could find one that large..

Gotta ask, how much faster can you push the PC bullet vs. cast or cast with gascheck?
 
I wonder if an FCD for .44 Mag would size them tight enough? Might be too big though, dunno.

Anyone have one that can size a case and see if it reduces ID enough to hold a .432 bullet without sizing it down too much?
 
First, pull a slug to see if the bullet is being swaged down. If it isn't, you don't have a problem. If it is, you will need to expand the case more. If you can't get a Lyman "M" die that size, you can either have one made, or take a .45 expander and turn it down to the size you want.
 
Well at least you have enough neck tension to prevent setback.:D Would buying a custom over sized sizing die or having a standard one honed out work for you? I would think not working the brass excessively would be the final goal.
 
Only way you will know is to pull a few and see if they are staging down. If they are, you will need either harder bullets or a m type case expander.
 
Walkalong's suggestion about the FCD die might work, and they are cheap.

Hey, guess there may be a use for the FCD afterall.:p
 
Dale.. You can order custom sized expanders from ch4d.. not sure if their expanders would be compatible with your lee dies, but they can probably accommodate..
 
Unless your brass is all the same thickness and springiness, you can't rely on the sizing die to dial in neck tension. And the base of the brass, near the web, can't get fully sized by the die. So the sizer die has to be a little bit tight to get the base close enough to spec. Unless you're using powder puff loads or your chambers are loose, you can't get away with making your sizing die too much bigger. It might work for you, but I think you'd be happier with a custom expander.

My handgun brass lasts a heck of a long time, though. Overworking the case mouths might be a bigger deal to you.
 
Different expanded brands may function differently but the ones I have dont work like the rifle expanders as you are suggesting

They don't expand a significant part of the case beyond flaring the mouth.

Most of my loads are powderpuff. You can absolutely get away with partial sizing if I had I die that would do it.

But as it is sizing to nearly .010" neck tension is insane when my two guns need grossly oversized projectiles. As to whatever solution not working with a wide variety of brass an bullets. Well it is not an issue to me. I have a die set for that. Whatever I figure out will be for cast only


Anyone know the specs on the cowboy action dies?
 
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You might consider starting over with a decent set of RCBS dies, the regular ones. I loaded a lot of cast (not powdercoated) bullets for my Redhawk with nary a problem. Works fine for both .44 Spl. and Mag. Might be cheaper and easier than messing with the Lee set trying to make them right. I have no experience with the cowboy dies. But they are supposed to be "optimized" for lead bullets.
 
They don't expand a significant part of the case beyond flaring the mouth.
Click to expand...
Check out Lyman M die for that.

I would also suggest NOE, but it looks like they don't make a 44 mag expander. And unless you have a lathe, you can't really turn down a bigger NOE plug, like you can a Lyman. They are larger than 1/2" in diameter. With a Lyman plug, you can just chuck the threaded part in a drill.

read this for more info:
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/print.php?itemnumber=39&table=tech_notes&type=Tech Notes

For a cast bullet plug, I would buy the 45LC Lyman die, and turn down the expander plug to the right diameter. IMO, the standard pistol plugs are too small for cast bullets by at least 2-3 mils. (The rifle M dies I have work great for cast or jacketed, out of the box.) For example, I have a custom M die plug for my 40 caliber bullets that is right about .400 1/2"- .401. It gives plenty of neck tension, even with .400" jacketed bullets. The standard size plug is supposed to be .398", but lyman's calibration seems to be a little off from my $10.00 calipers. I have tried two Lyman 40SW plugs, and the larger one was still measuring only .397 1/2 on about half the points tested and .398 on the other half. So my plug is about 3 mils larger.

Or if I had a short M die body, already, I might just buy a 458 rifle plug, even, and make a custom plug with plenty of extra length if needed.

There is also a member of Cast Boolits who will make custom M die plugs for only 12 dollars each plus 3 for shipping any number of plugs.

Of course, the cowboy dies might be better for you. This is all just FYI. Custom expanders are working wonders for my 9mm and 10mm cast bullets. I haven't cleaned any of my handgun barrels for lead fouling in over two years.
 
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There is also a member of Cast Boolits who will make custom M die plugs for only 12 dollars each plus 3 for shipping any number of plugs.
Click to expand...

Best option so far, if you wanna keep that sizer.

If fitting .432 bullets in your casings isn't working, you are going to need a fatter expander. How much ? might be a little hit and miss.

You aren't alone in some of the sizing/seating issues with powdercoating, but most of them are a pretty easy fix.

I hated the lee sizer die. Hated it. I love the seater, but my 44 mag set is a hodge-podge anyway.


Getting a custom expander is gonna be much less hassle and money than finding a custom sizer.
 
Oh, good. They DO make it. I stand corrected.

If you notice, that expander is .427 with a .431 step on it. This is NOT going to work with .432 cast bullets, period. It will shave them, for sure. PC might work, though.

IMO, the ideal would be a .431-.432 expander with a .433-4 step on it. If your bullets are pulling in the cylinder, you could just sand it down a little.

If you want a custom plug made for you, decide on
A. diameter of the step/flare to the nearest whole mil
B. diameter of the expander to the nearest whole mil
C. length of the expander section

And find Buckshot over on Cast Boolits. I dunno if he makes Lee Expander plugs. He might. I'm providing this info because I bugged him about it, but then ended up making my own from the parts Lyman sent me. His prices and reputation are great.
 
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For my .44 Magnum, it prefers a fat cast bullet. I use a Lee Precision Universal Flaring Die to bell the case mouth enough for a great fit. Just don't bell too much or you will have different problems. Just start slow and bell it a little at a time.
 
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