.44 Safary black powder revolver

[Skinny 1950]

Safaray Arms .44 Picture

I am thinking about buying what is described as a Safary .44 black powder revolver, the picture looks like a 3rd model Dragoon but I have never heard of the maker...... any one know what this is????

 

[Bluehawk]

Safary? Do ya mean Safari..as in the African-type hunting adventure??
Probably best if you post a picture of it so we can see what you're talking about.

 

[Skinny 1950]

I am getting in touch with the seller to clarify what it is but the picture they sent looks like a reproduction Dragoon with a brass trigger guard and back strap. Safary is the way the seller spelled it so for now that is what I have to go by....Thanks

 

[rcflint]

The photo you show is certainly not a Dragoon. It is a 44 caliber 1851 Navy, probably by Pietta.

 

[denster]

rcflint is right on. Not a dragoon but an 44cal 1851. Several companies have made them but most notably Pietta. That isn't by any chance the one listed for sale on the muzzleloader forum as a Dragoon wannabe?

 

[Skinny 1950]

I was in touch with the seller and it was imported into Canada by Safari Arms Toronto and it was made in Italy. Was the 1851 Navy made in .44 back in the day or is this available only in reproductions.
This gun was not listed on the muzzleloader forum....
The gun looks to be in good shape and the seller has a very good reputation so I bought it for what I think is a good price $250 CDN....The holster is a bonus....Thanks for the help on this............

 

[denster]

The 1851 was only made in .36 back in the day. The 44 versions are fantasy revolvers from various manufacturors but that doesn't mean they are not cool. I don't know about the availability of black powder gear in BC so I can't say if that is a good deal or not. Here a fair price would be around $125 US. Looks to be in good shape so you should have a lot of fun with it.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

denster is that 125 new or used? I think he is talking about maybe a new gun that just came with a holster. not sure though, if new you can find them in the States for around $200.

 

[denster]

Rob. That's used price. Doubt if that's a new gun with the ring around the cylinder.

 

[Skinny 1950]

I didn't notice the ring around the cylinder damn I got burned...
The question now is what is a safe load on a frame and cylinder that was designed for .36 now bored out to .44 ??????
This gun doesn't come with an instruction manual??????

 

[arcticap]

Traditions imports Pietta revolvers and their website has a PDF manual.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/~...ms.com/cmsAdmin/uploads/BPRevolver_manual.pdf

 

[black_powder_Rob]

denster Ahhhh i see the ring now didn't look to hard the other night. and yep you would be correct on the price then.

Skinny don't look at it as if you got burned, does the gun work and keep in mind we are talking prices in the U.S. I am not even sure what the regular prices would be in Canada. and don't worry about it being designed for a 36 and bored out to a 44 its not that big of a deal for the gun while using the BP or sub. I would say play with the loadings between 25 grains and 35 grains and see what will give you the best accuracy. Good luck and I have a feelin you are going to have loads of fun.

 

[Skinny 1950]

Thanks for the link arcticap very useful information. A new gun like this in Canada is around $380 with tax. I can't wait to get started with this black powder shooting. Again thanks everyone for the help.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Any loading for a steel framed 1860 Colt would work in this gun and be safe. The 1860 Colt used an 1851 rebated frame with a rebated .44 cylinder, larger grip frame and a new barrel design in .44 cal. Basically, it was an 1851 upgraded to .44 cal.

 

[Palehorseman]

Proces can vary wildly for same C&B revolvers here in the US also. Midway and Cabela's comes to mind

 

[rcflint]

51 44

As Gaucho said, the 1860 Army Colt is basically an 1851 Navy with a different barrel and larger gripframe. Colt, by the time he made the 44 Army had gotten better steel from Sheffield, England and was able to make a cylinder small enough in diameter to enable adapting the Navy frame to it by cutting a rebate in the floor if the cylinder window. This allowed a revolver of almost half the weight of the Dragoon.

Today's replicas are of even better steel than Colt could get in the 19th Century. The revolver is safe, as mentioned, with any load safe for the 1860 Army, which means, all the 3fg powder to can stuff in the chambers and still seat a ball. (about 30 to 32 gr). However, the best accuracy would be found at a bit smaller charge, 25 to 27 gr is good with a 454 ball.

Pietta's "44 Navy" is an 1860 Army with Navy grips and a bored out octagonal Navy barrel. They made it because they could, and it apparently sells well. The largest 51 Navy Colt ever made was 40 caliber, and was never produced for sale.

 

[a1rstreamer]

I also have a C&B that is stamped with Safari Arms. Mine, however is a reproduction of the 1858 Remington New Army Service, .44 cal, with a 7-1/2" barrel. It was made of stainless steel with a brass trigger guard.

 

[Gatofeo]

I had an inauthentic copy of the Colt 1851 in .44 caliber, back in the 1970s. As I recall, I could never get more than about 30 grains of FFFG in it, under a ball (no wad).
The chambers had less capacity than my current reproduction of the 1860 Colt, though I don't know why. As you say, the Colt 1860 used the 1851 frame.

 

[BCRider]

Skinny, if you go to Marstar's website you'll find the Canadian new prices on the various 1851 Pietta models. None of the ones there seems to be totaly like yours but that seems to be fairly common with the makers swapping parts and combos from year to year.

For shooting it I'd have no worries about going as high as 30 grains of FFFg. That amount of powder produces a recoil that is about the same as a fairly stout .38Spl from a modern S&W gun. So it's not a huge recoil by any means.

From looking at the prices at Marstar you'll see that you got an OK deal but maybe not what some would call a super bargain. But if it's clean, tight and ready to shoot then you got a solid value based on our Canadian prices.

If it sets the stage I got two 1861 revolvers at the last Kamloops show. A .36 and a .44 along with a couple of powder flasks and a box and a half of round balls. Total for all this was $450. I figured that price was a great bargain. It's obviously better than your deal but not by a whole lot so you certainly don't need to feel like you got taken to the cleaners.

Now just get another one and a rig for them and join the Cowboy group out at Mission. In fact we'll be there this coming Oct 3 for a monthly fun shoot. I'm planning on using my Remington percussion pistols for this event. If you bring out your '51 I'd be more than happy to supply some powder and balls for you to try out your new toy at some plinking after the match is done. Things generally fold up around 3 PM so if you come out for sometime after lunch you can see a couple of the stages being shot and meet up with me. Just ask the folks where "Woody Smith" is. That's the nickname I use for cowboy shooting. There's a couple of others that shoot either cap and ball or black powder cartridge so you'd get to see what the whole BP smoke show looks like....

 

[rcflint]

A ring around the cylinder does necessarily not mean the gun has been fired, it may have been handled by people who don't know the proper way to cycle the revolver in the gunshop....

 

[BHP FAN]

you hear folks yell FARB, but I think if you dropped one on a Civil War battle field [useing your time machine] one of those Rebs or Yanks would snatch it up in a heartbeat...