.44 Special handloads?

[RealGun]

I could follow in 44 Special what I do in 357 Magnum. My heavy loads are coated Br18, while milder loads are plain lead Br12. The different color bullets are really the safety feature, also an indicator of what leading I might get, because no way do I want to shoot the heavy loads in the smaller guns and spoil my day. The SD rounds are purchased XTP ammo. So the earlier suggestion to color code bullets, avoiding special brass, works well.

 

[mnrivrat]

Like trying to pick fly poop out of pepper, this makes little sense assuming you need two different loads for the guns your talking about. I agree with ArchAngelCD so I guess my opinion is not welcome . Bye

 

[RealGun]

There is no reason to shoot different loads in those two revolvers. There is belittle difference between revolvers with a 2" and 3" barrel. A good practice load should work well in both.

Charter Arms Bulldog rated at 20 oz.
while the 3" GP100 rated at 36 oz. approaching double the weight (and recoil control), certainly cause for considering differentiation in loads used for each. I would have to agree that those who load everything to be soft shooting might think that anything that shoots on target at 15 yards is good regardless. I personally don't load a big bore to shoot like a 22, but a 20 oz. little fella needs some special consideration in my opinion.

 

[mnrivrat]

If the weight of the gun is of significant importance to the performance of the cartridge, some one will have to explain that. Recoil is certainly effected, but in this case performance in a 2 vs 3 inch barrel is'nt a significant factor.

 

[RealGun]

If the weight of the gun is of significant importance to the performance of the cartridge, some one will have to explain that. Recoil is certainly effected, but in this case performance in a 2 vs 3 inch barrel is'nt a significant factor.

I wouldn't expect to confine the context of others' remarks, when the root post was "There is no reason to shoot different loads in those two revolvers."

 

[CraigC]

May be true for 'some' but there is certainly reason enough for ME to shoot different loads in the different guns.

 

[Varminterror]

Using coated bullets works - if you want to shoot non-jacketed bullets. Using nickel and yellow brass, or even simply sorting by headstamp, works too.

He11 of a lot less time involved in my life trimming my brass one time ever than it is to coat every batch of bullets just for that purpose.

I've never understood the paradigm some folks live in where they've never experienced the value of having tailored loads for their specific firearms.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Charter Arms Bulldog rated at 20 oz.
while the 3" GP100 rated at 36 oz. approaching double the weight (and recoil control), certainly cause for considering differentiation in loads used for each. I would have to agree that those who load everything to be soft shooting might think that anything that shoots on target at 15 yards is good regardless. I personally don't load a big bore to shoot like a 22, but a 20 oz. little fella needs some special consideration in my opinion.

I specifically said practice ammo because the OP said he was only using factory ammo for carry. Of course you could load different loads for more serious business but that's not what the OP asked about. I was focusing on the fact there would be little difference in practice ammo performance between a 2" and 3" barrel.

Just as a side note. I load a full power .38 Special +P load for a 15oz J frame and use that same FBI Load in a 4" M10. Yes the felt recoil is more noticeable in the J frame but not unmanageable.

 

[mnrivrat]

"I've never understood the paradigm some folks live in where they've never experienced the value of having tailored loads for their specific firearms"

I don't realy consider that applical in this case. There are a lot of good reasons to taylor a load to a specific gun , but in this case I see no practical benifit to apply. What is the payback vs having to manage a seperate loading and how important is it ? Not overall, but specificaly to this application.

 

[RealGun]

I specifically said practice ammo because the OP said he was only using factory ammo for carry. Of course you could load different loads for more serious business but that's not what the OP asked about. I was focusing on the fact there would be little difference in practice ammo performance between a 2" and 3" barrel.

Just as a side note. I load a full power .38 Special +P load for a 15oz J frame and use that same FBI Load in a 4" M10. Yes the felt recoil is more noticeable in the J frame but not unmanageable.

You know best what you meant and make an interesting observation. However, the OP was pretty specific, and you would have to attack the premise to avoid him expecting rounds tailored for each gun.

OP in part:
"I'd expect the GP load to be maybe a bit hotter. Nothing approaching .44 magnum loads or anything unrealistic like that, but... let's say comparable to .38 +p's in my wife's SP101 in terms of recoil.

Also I'd want the two loads to be distinguishable from each other by the appearance of the bullet in the loaded round so that there will be no confusing the two. The Charter rounds can be used in the GP, but the GP rounds don't go in the Charter."
*********
To have a round that was fun to shoot in the Charter might be quite unsatisfying in the GP. A round that runs great in the GP might be a bit of a beast in the Charter. If I was practicing with an SD gun, I would want the shooting experience of the round to be similar to that of the SD ammo. "Target" ammo is different, typically softer, perhaps tailored for POA at a specific distance.

 

[Walkalong]

To have a round that was fun to shoot in the Charter might be quite unsatisfying in the GP. A round that runs great in the GP might be a bit of a beast in the Charter.

From owning/shooting a 3" CA, and also having shot .44 Spl in a 6" N Frame, you can bet on that one.

 

[Varminterror]

I don't realy consider that applical in this case. There are a lot of good reasons to taylor a load to a specific gun , but in this case I see no practical benifit to apply. What is the payback vs having to manage a seperate loading and how important is it ? Not overall, but specificaly to this application.

Applicable. Tailor. Benefit. Specifically.

The two revolvers weigh in differently, potentially have different BC gap spreads, different cylinder lengths, different throat diameters, different forcing cone angles, different sight regulation (different range, load velocity, or bullet weight), etc etc.

SD isn't precision long range competition, but it's not an area where sub-optimal accuracy with either piece should be considered acceptable.

To the OP - I re-read your opener and your "idea" to use one powder, charge weight, primer, and case then identifying by the bullet would work, although there really isn't any reason to do so unless you're charging with a thrower, rather than weighing/dispensing your charges. I would encourage you, if you DO use the same powder charge weight, do NOT lend yourself to mixing up different powders. In example, a fast burning powder charge under a 180grn pill might be a mild load, and the same charge weight of a slower powder under a 260grn pill might be a hefty load, but the fast powder under the heavy pill might be a grenade. So if you're picking, say, 10grn as your charge, only use one powder for both (which I BELIEVE is your plan?).

You'll find the combinations will likely end up with a light end light bullet load and a moderate heavier bullet load, or a max heavy bullet load and a moderate light bullet load. You won't likely find one powder and one powder charge will drop both a heavy and a light bullet in the middle of the road. One will be on one edge or the other if one is in the middle.

You might struggle, however, to get both loads to shoot to your sights, that would be the biggest watch out even if it does work for you.

 

[eldon519]

Some of these suggestions are doable but leave a lot of room for mistakes, especially by someone else not familiar with the details of the cryptic coding system such as friends, family, range buddies, etc. I think there is a lot to be said for getting the 69 and loading your Magnum brass specialized for the 69 and and your Special brass tailored for the Charter. Then you don't need to develop your own Da Vinci Code to tell it all apart, and the brass dimensions physically prevent chambering the magnum brass in the Charter for those who may not be in the know.

 

[RealGun]

Some of these suggestions are doable but leave a lot of room for mistakes, especially by someone else not familiar with the details of the cryptic coding system such as friends, family, range buddies, etc. I think there is a lot to be said for getting the 69 and loading your Magnum brass specialized for the 69 and and your Special brass tailored for the Charter. Then you don't need to develop your own Da Vinci Code to tell it all apart, and the brass dimensions physically prevent chambering the magnum brass in the Charter for those who may not be in the know.

I found it curious to see a reference to a 69 and then checked the OP:

"Say that I own a Charter Bulldog and in the very near future plan to acquire a GP100 in 44 special, three inch barrel."

Pretty sure we are talking about two different 44 Specials here. No fair moving the goal posts.

 

[Varminterror]

Some of these suggestions are doable but leave a lot of room for mistakes, especially by someone else not familiar with the details of the cryptic coding system such as friends, family, range buddies, etc.

Your friends, family, range buddies should follow basic rules of firearms operation - if you're not 100% certain of the ammunition, don't shoot it. It's their own negligence if they pull out a box of reloaded ammunition without checking with the owner and do damage. People talk about this concern all the time, but if you're a good steward of your reloads (i.e. don't package them in factory boxes, box & label them appropriately, don't pass them around to get scattered by the Four Winds...) and the other shooters are responsible with ammunition selection, it's not an issue.

 

[eldon519]

I found it curious to see a reference to a 69 and then checked the OP:

"Say that I own a Charter Bulldog and in the very near future plan to acquire a GP100 in 44 special, three inch barrel."

Pretty sure we are talking about two different 44 Specials here. No fair moving the goal posts.

Check Post #10. OP did not seem to mind.

 

[eldon519]

Your friends, family, range buddies should follow basic rules of firearms operation - if you're not 100% certain of the ammunition, don't shoot it. It's their own negligence if they pull out a box of reloaded ammunition without checking with the owner and do damage. People talk about this concern all the time, but if you're a good steward of your reloads (i.e. don't package them in factory boxes, box & label them appropriately, don't pass them around to get scattered by the Four Winds...) and the other shooters are responsible with ammunition selection, it's not an issue.

That's a nice sentiment and perhaps the way it should be, but it is not inline with enforcement of liability and damages in this day in age, nor typical industrial safety practices, nor my own conscience. I would not feel any better about it if a loved one were harmed with my reloads, even if it were clearly their fault.

Stewardship is a key word here though, because you are relying on an unbroken stewardship or custody to maintain safety rather than an inherent physical safety feature. You are relying on procedural safeguards vs physical ones. For whatever reason, if that stewardship or procedure breaks down, an accident can happen. There are many more potential modes of failure. With the mag vs special, it doesn't matter if I am there or my labeling system is in tact or any other system put in place is still present/legible/etc. It simply won't fit. The Japanese use the term poka yoke to describe this concept in industrial and manufacturing environments.

 

[RealGun]

That's a nice sentiment and perhaps the way it should be, but it is not inline with enforcement of liability and damages in this day in age, nor typical industrial safety practices, nor my own conscience. I would not feel any better about it if a loved one were harmed with my reloads, even if it were clearly their fault.

Stewardship is a key word here though, because you are relying on an unbroken stewardship or custody to maintain safety rather than an inherent physical safety feature. You are relying on procedural safeguards vs physical ones. For whatever reason, if that stewardship or procedure breaks down, an accident can happen. There are many more potential modes of failure. With the mag vs special, it doesn't matter if I am there or my labeling system is in tact or any other system put in place is still present/legible/etc. It simply won't fit. The Japenese use the term poka yoke to describe this concept in industrial and manufacturing environments.

This is an odd argument, because you actually make a case against reloading at all. My reloading will not be controlled by someone else's anxiety about what might ultimately happen with the ammo. I don't shoot other people's reloads and would suggest that others consider taking similar precautions.

 

[eldon519]

Not really. That is your interpretation.

 

[RealGun]

Check Post #10. OP did not seem to mind.

I read it that the OP was just honoring the comment.

 

[eldon519]

Perhaps, perhaps not. I do not see why you feel the need to constantly shepard threads as you see fit. You are neither the OP nor the moderator. My input is relevant, and the OP can either ignore it or dismiss it if he wants. Won't hurt my feelings.

 

[RealGun]

Perhaps, perhaps not. I do not see why you feel the need to constantly shepard threads as you see fit. You are neither the OP nor the moderator. My input is relevant, and the OP can either ignore it or dismiss it if he wants. Won't hurt my feelings.

I think we call it discussion. You could just gracefully explain your post, if you choose to.

 

[eldon519]

What about it requires explanation? Alternatively, you could abstain from calling out comments that don't take the conversation in the exact direction you want it to. That would be behavior consistent with discussion.

 

[Varminterror]

This is an odd argument, because you actually make a case against reloading at all.

Or firearms ownership, or vehicle ownership, or ownership of pointy sticks, having kids, etc...

Stewardship is pretty easy. I know where my ammo is, it's locked up, and I know when it's unlocked and leaves. I've never understood how people are irresponsible enough to let their ammunition leave their custody chain. If your firearm doesn't ever leave your stewardship paradigm, why would ammunition be any different? Ammunition doesn't have legs, it only goes where you allow it to go.

Poka Yoke - colloquially called "bubba proofing" in the US - is pretty easy for ammunition stewardship. Lock the box. Crisis potential eliminated.

 

[eldon519]

Well I am glad you have a fool-proof system. For many other people, mistakes happen.