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Buffalo Bore on Charter Bulldogs

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Panzerschwein, Mar 23, 2015.

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  1. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Elongated cylinders? Nope. Would you believe that SAAMI set the maximum O.A.L. for the .44 Magnum at 1.610"...exactly .005" shorter than that of the .44 Special? So conceivably some knucklehead could run a .44 Magnum reamer into a .44 Special chamber and lengthen it to accept the .44 Magnum cartridge.

    35W
     
  2. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    wow, I have an original bulldog 44 special. im going to see if a magnum load will fit in the cylinder.
     
  3. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Oh I see, no lengthened cylinders needed to make a .44 magnum bulldog. I bet it had some recoil!
     
  4. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    Wife told me not to post because this would happen. I didn't listen. You all can
    believe anything you want. I do know the facts, I was there and part of what
    happend. Doug is long gone now so he can't talk. Probably most of the guys
    that worked on this are gone. Good luck with your Bulldogs. Too bad the new
    generation can't learn anything. I don't have to prove anything to anybody. Those of you
    who are old enough to have read "Guns & Ammo". Back in the 60's and "Gunsport"
    would know who I am. Too bad I can't pass some of this knowledge on. Take care now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  5. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Sorry but you lost me when you posted about using 50,000psi loads in a standard six-shot .45Colt Blackhawk.

    I have my doubts about .44Mag in a Charter Arms as well. These are not top quality guns and I would not push my luck with one. Even if it didn't let go, the safety margin has to be close to nothing.
     
  6. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    while I like my bulldogs I have to agree. I just got back from shooting my two bulldogs. they do not like CCI aluminum case Gold Dots. I had at least one light primer strike every cylinder with each one. while my brass reloads and win sthp fired just fine. these guns are not top end, when they get dirty they start to get rough, making the trigger pull harder due to carbon build up on the cylinder faces.... I will add that each of the cci loads that had light primer dents (no matter which chamber I tried to re-fire them in) fired just fine from my 629.
     
  7. Berserker

    Berserker Member

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    I too like 44 special. I have one of the 4" charters, but my adjustable sights don't seem to work. I emailed Charter asking about what I could replace it with, and when they found out it was older, they never replied back again.

    I carry the old Winchester silver tip 200 grains in it.

    I'd like to get a snubnose. Thoug I think the next handgun I buy will S&W L frame 44 mag, 4" barrel. You could load some nice stout special in there. Plus I just like the L frame. Also have 696, but there has been rumors of weak forcing cone. I do carry BB in it for bears and people, but don't practice much with that load.

    44 special is better then people realize.
     
  8. Berserker

    Berserker Member

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    As to the discussion about Charter in 44 mags, I did read in another forum about a guy wondering why the recoil was so bad, and realized he loaded a mag. I am not sure if CA intended this though, or if it just fit. I noticed with hand loads with a high primer, they will not cycle in my S&W, but in my CA. Sloppy I suspect. But in a defense gun, you want it to go off.
     
  9. Berserker

    Berserker Member

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    I was surprised at levels he listed some 44s. I am curious if they were just listed based on specs, or if he as experience. But in some areas this Brian Pearce article is well regarded, you can google and find it. You can also buy the magazine still.
     

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  10. weblance

    weblance Member

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    Im sure you are probably correct. People will always push the design envelope of a product, even when its a bad idea. I knew a guy who stuffed a 454 into a Chevette. He died in it. He was part of the old generation. He proved all of us correct, that he would kill himself in it. I wont be shooting any 44 Magnum ammo in my Bulldog.
     
  11. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Thanks guys!

    Well today at the 'ol gun show here in town, it was a paltry affair to say the least. But, I did manage to snag a box of Winchester Silvertip .44 special 200 grain hollow points:

    20150328_132411.jpg

    These looks like they'd hurt if you got shot by them! Not sure if they'll expand in my 2.5" Bulldog, so I think for now I'll keep them till I can at least chronograph them... alongside the Blazer 200 grain Gold Dots, and hopefully when Underwood gets around to making their Bull Dog .44 special loads which use the same 200 grain Gold Dot but loaded a bit hotter.
     
  12. Damon555

    Damon555 Member

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    Those should work like a charm in your Bulldog....

    I loaded some Gold dots in front of a stiff dose of unique......wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of these bad boys!

    01740d995a9e582c8acf01ab985319bce2929138bc_zpsd5cef94a.jpg

    In your original post you were talking about Buffalo Bore 190 grainers @ 1000+ fps. I cringe at the thought of shooting something like that out of my very light Bulldog....That trigger guard would have a field day with my trigger finger....lol

    Enjoy your 44 special. They are fun as heck to own and shoot.
     
  13. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Thanks! The timings no good on my new Bulldog... looks like it's back to the mothership...
     
  14. golden

    golden Member

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    Silvertips

    COOLDILL,

    I would second the recommendation for the SILVERTIPS. They were always a mild load, but WINCHESTER made the jackets fairly soft so that they would expand. My only complaint is that they went to those 20 round boxes.

    There was a gun writer ( I can't remember which one) who claimed he actually invented the .44 magnum before Elmer KEITH'S work and that he used a COLT Single Action to do it with. He stated that the gun could take the loads, but the recoil was horrible.
    There was also a gunsmith who used to "drill out" the chambers on S&W .38 Special model 10's to shoot .357 magnum. S&W quickly introduced the model 13 after that. The 13 was just a model 10 heavy barrel chambered for .357 magnum, but it received used modern construction techniques.

    I think I would pass on the "old timer's" suggestion. I like having 10 fingers.

    Jim
     
  15. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Thansk, Jim.

    I think I'll use the Silvertips for now, at least till Underwood cranks out some more 200 grain Gold Dot Bull Dog loads.
     
  16. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    I just tried to put a 44 mag in my early Gen 1 Bulldog Nope not going to go in my dog . maybe they had a experimental gun. But no production one.


    Google guns blown up by Underwood ammo . They way over load . Several 40 and 10MM and others .

    Stay with the proven loads. Just because no jell test doesn't mean people haven't been dropped dead right their from silver tips or gold dots. I think you need a 357 or 44 mag if you want all this speed.

    Old Wild Bill Hickok killed many a BG with his 36 cal Colts . the 36 is about same as our 380 in FPS and Ft lbs today .

    If I rapid fire mine I will get 3 pretty close together 4 will be more open and 5 might be complete miss That with those SLOW 200 blazer god dots shooting a approx 12x18" target at 7 yds. Drawing from holster
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  17. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    I just went to underwood here what says about 200 gr 44

    This ammunition is safe to fire in any firearm chambered in 44 Special or 44 Remington Magnum except for Charter Arms Bull Dog. Do Not Fire this ammunition in a Charter Arms Bull Dog.


    Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps
    Muzzle Energy: 537 ft. lbs.

    Buy a 44 mag.
     
  18. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Got my bullets from Matt's this morning. Good looking bullets, look forward to trying them out. Should make a great field bullet for the .44Colt and .44Spl.
     
  19. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    You need to read my post. I said "Bull Dog" load.
     
  20. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    I'm going to have to send both of my bulldogs in for timing and end shake issues. neither gun is from the current Charter Arms though they are all Ecker built guns. this will cost me at least $50/per gun in labor and probably another $50/per gun for a new hand and extra shims. now toss in shipping and you have to ask yourself why the hell didn't I stay with standard factory loads instead of boutique loads.
     
  21. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Well Underwood makes this load SPECIFICALLY for the Charter Arms Bulldog.

    The Speer and Blazer Gold Dots will not open up at 2.5" Bulldog velocities, it's just too slow. The Underwood ammo is a bit faster, and it will open up, but in no way is it "trying to make a magnum out of a special", it's just a little hotter. I won't shoot but half a box of it in my gun anyway, and will use it for carry purposes only after initial testing.
     
  22. Drail

    Drail Member

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    With modern hollowpoint designs we have now you don't really need high velocity to get them to open up, though that was the case for many years. I have been carrying a Bulldog Pug for many years and Gold Dots will open when fired into water. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with a good cast full wadcutter either.
     
  23. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    When will people learn that water is NOT an appropriate media for testing defensive hollow point handgun ammunition? It simply leads to very high expansion in almost all cases, and does not compute well at all to real flesh in terms of expected expansion and penetration levels.

    To all you people out there shooting water jugs and gawking at the expansion you're getting, please do keep in mind that you may very well not get the same results in ballistics gelatin or living tissue. In fact, you will get very different results.
     
  24. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    Oh good grief ... Cooldill, chill! :)

    Until gelatin is readily/easily/cheaply available for us, water is a better-than-nothing medium in which to test bullet expansion.

    Speaking for myself, filling up a few old milk jugs with water, lining them up and popping a round into them for a quick, informal expansion test is the only way to go.

    Prior to deploying the milk jugs, I retrieve expended bullets from the fine-grain clay/sand mix of my loads-testing area backstop to get an idea of how they perform (see Post#16).

    I have read different explanations of how to craft gelatin blocks and use them ... and it is something that I will never do as I deem it to be not worth my effort.

    Now, if I could walk into a LGS and walk out with a big block of target gelatin (that needs no special handling/refigeration/etc) for a buck or two, I would give it a try ... until then, not. ;)
     
  25. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    True dat. :)

    Gel does like like a real pain to buy and set up. I understand you using water, even if it isn't "the best" as it were.

    Well, regardless, I just bought a 50 round box of the Blazer 200 grain Gold Dots last night for my Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special with a 2.5" barrel. I don't know if they'll actually expand in an attacker's body, but hopefully they will.
     
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