4473's and FFL going out of business/retiring

[ohgrady]

That term died over here a few years ago, might have to explain to some who Quisling was.
As for 4473, a gun shop I worked for years ago, who is no longer in business, had a "gas and a match" plan for that type of incident. unfortunately, having gone out of business after I left, all 4473's are in BATFE hands, (those under 25 years old), now.

I saw this quote in the thread on re-watching Red Dawn. Within the last week I read how 4473's are turned over to ATF when a dealer shuts down/retires. If you don't like the government knowing your business, is the lesson here to buy/use young FFL holders, or established businesses that will likely be in business 25 years later (if you could predict such a thing)?

 

[Kind of Blued]

The best deal is to buy guns in private, face-to-face (FTF) sales. Completely legal, no taxes, no records, no waiting period, and no being treated like a criminal (check all of your state laws).

It makes even more sense when selling a gun. You can eliminate the middleman and pocket or get rid of the mark-up altogether.

Deciding where to meet the individual, how to make contact with them in the first place, whether or not to sell it to an individual, etc. are left up to your discretion. This is called "freedom" and is frowned upon by many who don't like the Second Amendment.

 

[armoredman]

It used to be ALL 4473s, regardless of age.

 

[Kind of Blued]

It used to be ALL 4473s, regardless of age.

Could you give us more on this? If an FFL goes out of business, are they only obligated to give the ATF all 4473s from the last X number of years?

I thought it was still "any and all".

 

[misANTHrope]

FFLs are required to keep 4473s on file for twenty years. However, they must keep their bound books until the Sun goes supernova or the savior returns or whatever.

 

[Bubba613]

I've been in business a little under 3 years and I have a banker's box stuffed with 4473s. I pity anyone trying to make a database out of those. I would bet half the info on them is already out of date.
If I make it to 20 years I will have dozens of such boxes with even more out of date information. Multiply that by hundreds of dealers. The return for the effort of transferring the information to database is nil.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I've been in business a little under 3 years and I have a banker's box stuffed with 4473s. I pity anyone trying to make a database out of those. I would bet half the info on them is already out of date.

Exactly. Look at the NFA database today. It's small time compared to all the 4473's out there and the NFA database is full of mistakes.

I can't imagine the cost or error rate of trying to type all that stuff in.

 

[saltyyn1]

The gun shop I worked in changed hands and re-applied for the FFL. All the previous owners records were sent to the ABATF. Couple years later a customer had a weapon stolen (purchased from the previous owner) and he hadn't recorded the serial number. Since we didn't have the 4473, I made several calls and ended up with the office that receives out dated records. They told me that it would cost $45.00/hour to track the serial number with no guarentee it would be found. Since the 4473 aren't on a data base, there must be several acres of storage area containing returned paper work. Since (I suspect) a lot of shops don't keep pristine files, it would be a real chore to go through them.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I can't imagine the cost or error rate of trying to type all that stuff in.

Our government can have the capacity to process it. Look at the number of tax forms submitted to the government each year. I suspect this far exceeds the number of 4473's filled out each year.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Our government can have the capacity to process it.

And look at how much it costs to run that group. ATF can't even keep the NFA database straight, a small percentage of 4473's.

IRS is one of governments largest employers.

Canada tried to do this with their gun records. Billions spent, accuracy nearly nothing.

 

[misANTHrope]

True, but there's some modicum of organization to the way tax forms are handled, whereas there's just a giant warehouse somewhere with boxes upon boxes of 4473s, which are not organized in any sort of useful fashion.

Anything is of course possible with a large enough investment of time, money, and personnel, but the feasability of such an undertaking is another matter completely. Especially when you consider that a very large percentage of the 4473s in storage are going to contain outdated information- old addresses, guns people don't own any more, people whose names have changed.

I'm not saying it's not possible to go through and do nefarious things with all that information, I'm just saying that it's not likely.

 

[subknave]

"FFLs are required to keep 4473s on file for twenty years. However, they must keep their bound books until the Sun goes supernova or the savior returns or whatever."

So when Obama takes office they can all be destroyed??

 

[7.62X25mm]

"Golly gee . . . I think I traded that gun for a boat. No, wait . . . That was the one that went overboard when we was duck huntin' in the boat I traded the other one for."

"No, as a matter of fact, you CAN'T come in."

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Canada tried to do this with their gun records. Billions spent, accuracy nearly nothing.

The fact that it will cost billions, create more bureaucrats and government workers, and accomplish nothing does not necessarily deter the federal government.