Sat. I stopped in a store in Bullhead City, AZ. Their prices were crazy high. Examples: New Ruger LCP $500, Kel-Tec P3AT $400. Powder for reloading $35 a pound. All plus sales tax. I don't mind paying a lttle extra to keep a local business in business, but not that much. I can buy either of these guns on the internet, pay shipping and transfer fees and save over $100! It's a free country and they can ask any price but neither myself nor my friends do business there. They want $100 for a transfer fee. Guess they think nobody knows there are local FFL's who will do it for WAY less. It will be interesting to see if they stay in business--which I doubt. End of rant.
No wonder gun stores go out of business
- Thread starter mxl
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This is a rough time to be a small retail establishment. I wouldn't choose that line of work right now, personally. Remember, they need to buy these guns at about the cost that you can buy them for on the Internet, likely at 7-15% interest, then keep the guns in inventory for months to years, provide salespeople for potential buyers (many of whom will handle the guns, decide what they like, then buy online), maintain a retail establishment, maintain insurance on the premises, and so on.
There's no way that they can compete with online retailers who sell guns at cost and make money on shipping. There's just no way.
There's no way that they can compete with online retailers who sell guns at cost and make money on shipping. There's just no way.
I'm with mxl on this one. I've been eyeing an H&K P30 at a local shop. They want $995. I found it online for $831. After all fees, taxes, etc., I would save $219 by buying online. I too want to support my local shops, but not ahead of supporting my family.
I think it's hit and miss a lot of times. I have found a few reasonable deals lately too. I bought my girlfriend a revolver (at a local shop) for Christmas and paid probably $50 more (before tax) and was happy to do it, but when it gets to be more than $100 I'm going to fire up the computer and save the money.
I think it's hit and miss a lot of times. I have found a few reasonable deals lately too. I bought my girlfriend a revolver (at a local shop) for Christmas and paid probably $50 more (before tax) and was happy to do it, but when it gets to be more than $100 I'm going to fire up the computer and save the money.
45Frank
Member
You must shop around, that's half the fun isn't it?
I will go 10 miles out of the way to buy something from a mom & pop store. You usually get some conversation out of it anyway.
I just found a small little gun shop buried behind a mall strip mall here. His prices are slightly lower on some things but higher on others.
There's a good size gun shop that alot of people I know hang at but his prices are high on everything. So have some fun and shop.
I will go 10 miles out of the way to buy something from a mom & pop store. You usually get some conversation out of it anyway.
I just found a small little gun shop buried behind a mall strip mall here. His prices are slightly lower on some things but higher on others.
There's a good size gun shop that alot of people I know hang at but his prices are high on everything. So have some fun and shop.
MikePGS
Member
A lot of the online gun stores are also brick and mortar stores, so that argument doesn't hold as much water as it appears to. It's not just gun stores that are in trouble. Even when the economy was good something like 80% of all small business start ups failed. It's a combination of a lot of both tangible and intangible factors that lead to a business's success. Those prices are pretty bad, but if they customer service is great they could still get customers. One of the local gun stores has just absolutely awful prices. However the staff are universally polite, knowledgeable and friendly which is why this same store has been in business for at least 20 years and always packed when I go there. Some people will always pay a premium for good customer service.
rmfnla
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
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- 704
A good shop can save you alot of hassles when you need warranty service, especially with all the restrictions around shipping guns.
My issue with gun shops has always been the attitude factor. Too many employ the Rambo wannabes who treat with disdain anyone who doesn't come in wearing BDUs and talking in 10-codes.
My issue with gun shops has always been the attitude factor. Too many employ the Rambo wannabes who treat with disdain anyone who doesn't come in wearing BDUs and talking in 10-codes.
deadin
Member
pj........
Ahhhh.. 995-831 = 164. 219-164 =55. You found somebody that is going to ship it, pay your FFL fees, etc. for free AND send you an extra $55??
Ahhhh.. 995-831 = 164. 219-164 =55. You found somebody that is going to ship it, pay your FFL fees, etc. for free AND send you an extra $55??
In my state we pay 8.1% sales tax. I was comparing cost both ways to get the gun to my home. Local shop: $995 + $80 sales tax + $25 background check = $1,100. Online shop: $831 (includes shipping) + $25 FFL + $25 background check = $881.
$1,100 - $881 = $219.
$1,100 - $881 = $219.
deadin
Member
Even with an 8% sales tax, he would still be getting $35 shipping and fees.
I guess that if he has a local FFL that doesn't charge and can talk the on-line seller into using USPS, (which I have found difficult to do. They want to use UPS/FedEx.) he might reach the savings stated. However, I don't think it's something that is going to work for everyone.
I guess that if he has a local FFL that doesn't charge and can talk the on-line seller into using USPS, (which I have found difficult to do. They want to use UPS/FedEx.) he might reach the savings stated. However, I don't think it's something that is going to work for everyone.
armchairQB
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- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
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- 74
Im sure they will dicker with you.
ljnowell
Member
I see it go both ways. I go to a local gunshop to buy accesories. If I order them online, by the time I pay shipping, I dont save much. There is another small store, ran out of a guys garage converted to a gunshop that I hang out at all the time. He lets me go through his catalogs and pick guns, at his price. I have known him a long time and a few of us have that privelage. Its the kind of place that you sit and drink coffee on stools half the day on a saturday and talk till the BS gets so deep you need to step outside for a breath. I love it. I also throw any money his way I can, on overpriced ammo, holsters, etc., that he may have on hand.
I visited two gun stores over the weekend, one of which sold cheap guns, at cheap prices, and they were FLYING off the shelves. Could not keep them in stock. Very Urban. Kel-Tecs, Hi-Points etc. Almost no accessory sales, not even a holster. Very Friendly staff. Got a rundown on the benefits of a .25ACP pistol.
The other sold mostly accessories, and decent to high priced guns, and there were a lot of people hanging around talking and browsing but not a lot buying. The range was active tho. Also friendly staff and very knowledgeable. Got a rundown on a j-frame smith.
The first shop was almost all inner city types, and they were doing BRISK business let me tell you. Could not fill out the paperwork fast enough and people standing in line, phone ringing off the hook.
The second was police, and tactical stuff. like you know, vests and 5.11 and tactical shotgun bolt ons.
The difference was marked. The inexpensive guns were flying off the shelves, and people came in to buy them in groups.
The other thing I thought was odd, is they seemed to not question the quality, or handle them much. it was more like " Hi I would like to buy a 9mm" "How about this one?" "OK" bam sale over.
The other sold mostly accessories, and decent to high priced guns, and there were a lot of people hanging around talking and browsing but not a lot buying. The range was active tho. Also friendly staff and very knowledgeable. Got a rundown on a j-frame smith.
The first shop was almost all inner city types, and they were doing BRISK business let me tell you. Could not fill out the paperwork fast enough and people standing in line, phone ringing off the hook.
The second was police, and tactical stuff. like you know, vests and 5.11 and tactical shotgun bolt ons.
The difference was marked. The inexpensive guns were flying off the shelves, and people came in to buy them in groups.
The other thing I thought was odd, is they seemed to not question the quality, or handle them much. it was more like " Hi I would like to buy a 9mm" "How about this one?" "OK" bam sale over.
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Deanimator
Member
Top three ways for a gun store to go out of business:
1. Screw up your paperwork.
2. Overcharge to an insane degree.
3. Treat your customers like crap.
There was ONE gun store in the City of Cleveland when I moved here in '86. The last time I went there they were charging more for a Taurus PT99 than anybody else was charging for a genuine Beretta, between $700-800 IIR. I think they were gone by 1990.
There's a place down in Cuyahoga Falls called Dick's Gun Room. They aren't even close to the cheapest place around. They also have an excellent selection of guns and accessories and a polite and [usually] knowledgeable staff. You pay extra for somebody to have Remington 40Xes in stock most of the time. In their case, it's probably worth it.
1. Screw up your paperwork.
2. Overcharge to an insane degree.
3. Treat your customers like crap.
There was ONE gun store in the City of Cleveland when I moved here in '86. The last time I went there they were charging more for a Taurus PT99 than anybody else was charging for a genuine Beretta, between $700-800 IIR. I think they were gone by 1990.
There's a place down in Cuyahoga Falls called Dick's Gun Room. They aren't even close to the cheapest place around. They also have an excellent selection of guns and accessories and a polite and [usually] knowledgeable staff. You pay extra for somebody to have Remington 40Xes in stock most of the time. In their case, it's probably worth it.
The Tennessean
Member
Mom & Pop gun stores charge what the market in their area will support, just like any other business - this is basic economics. If the market in the area didn't support the prices two things would/could occur: the store lowers its prices OR the store goes out of business.
There is also a myth that online businesses are cheaper to run. Not true. As an IT person I can tell you that the IT services required by medium-large online business would blow your minds. The reason online prices are typically cheaper is because the online buying world is very intense with your competitor's prices just a click away. In the brick and mortar world the competition's prices are a 45 minute drive across town, or whatever. The point being is the effort to seek out those other prices is much greater for brick and mortar stores which is why the markets for those stores can command higher prices (it's not the ONLY reason but one of them).
I could write you guys a book about IT and online business but you get the point.
There is also a myth that online businesses are cheaper to run. Not true. As an IT person I can tell you that the IT services required by medium-large online business would blow your minds. The reason online prices are typically cheaper is because the online buying world is very intense with your competitor's prices just a click away. In the brick and mortar world the competition's prices are a 45 minute drive across town, or whatever. The point being is the effort to seek out those other prices is much greater for brick and mortar stores which is why the markets for those stores can command higher prices (it's not the ONLY reason but one of them).
I could write you guys a book about IT and online business but you get the point.
Hey I have been to Dicks Gun Room!
I gotta admit I looked at stuff there, fondled it with my sweaty paws and then bought it over the internet.
I would love to support a store but honestly my own families finances come first after a certain amount of reasonable markup.
I gotta admit I looked at stuff there, fondled it with my sweaty paws and then bought it over the internet.
I would love to support a store but honestly my own families finances come first after a certain amount of reasonable markup.
The Tennessean
Member
It's less of a comparison and more of an explanation. People often wonder why corner store prices are higher than online prices, well, that's why. These two types of businesses compete to a degree but less than you think. Local markets will always dictate prices for Mom & Pop shops, regardless of what online prices look like from any sized online company. This isn't restricted to guns, it's almost all consumer goods, which guns are, consumer goods.
I gotta say after my last gun shop visit, I won't be missing the "conversation" should I finally take my business to the internet, where no one cares why I want a certain firearm.
Flipping through a CZ catalog at my local dealer, from whom I have bought at least four firearms, and who knows me going on eight years now, I point out the CZ SP-01, but not the "tactical" with the decocking lever and the factory night sights, nor the polymer framed Phantom. Alas, he has both of the ones I don't want right there in his case at MSRP according to the catalog.
"This one right here has decocking and night sights, the other a low maintenance polymer frame. You can't beat that."
"I don't want a CZ-75 style pistol that I cannot use cocked & locked. I can decock it with the trigger should I care to. I also prefer yellow/green Trijicon night sights with the date code on the side of the rear sight so I know how old they are. The polymer one is totally right handed and I am left handed, which is why I am interested in the one you do not have in your shop."
"Why would you want a cocked and locked firearm? That's an outdated concept these days. Most folks would just be mashing the trigger, forgetting that the safety has to be snapped off. I did that once when a guy tried to rob the store. Lucky for me he ran away before I figured out why I wasn't shooting at him."
"Yep. Lucky you. Even if I wanted this SP-01, the price is rather high." Again it is there at MSRP, $764.00. In my past purchases we have never been within 15% of MSRP.
"CZ barely raised their retail prices for 2010, but they raised their wholesale prices to the distributors and I get charged more for them. Lessee, the one you want would be $703.00." (MSRP=$703.00)
(I can get this pistol online for $609 shipped and a $20.00 transfer through my gun smith. No sales tax in Oregon).
I won't begrudge the man $74.00 dollars for keeping the lights on and having on hand two similar pistols I could grip for fit, but cripes, how much customer service skill is required to keep your mouth shut about WHY someone might want something?
The customer is always right, everywhere except at the local gun shop. I'll help keep his lights on if he'll learn to keep his tactical opinions to himself.
I have to give him some credit though, this time he finally decided not to try and push an XD on me.
Flipping through a CZ catalog at my local dealer, from whom I have bought at least four firearms, and who knows me going on eight years now, I point out the CZ SP-01, but not the "tactical" with the decocking lever and the factory night sights, nor the polymer framed Phantom. Alas, he has both of the ones I don't want right there in his case at MSRP according to the catalog.
"This one right here has decocking and night sights, the other a low maintenance polymer frame. You can't beat that."
"I don't want a CZ-75 style pistol that I cannot use cocked & locked. I can decock it with the trigger should I care to. I also prefer yellow/green Trijicon night sights with the date code on the side of the rear sight so I know how old they are. The polymer one is totally right handed and I am left handed, which is why I am interested in the one you do not have in your shop."
"Why would you want a cocked and locked firearm? That's an outdated concept these days. Most folks would just be mashing the trigger, forgetting that the safety has to be snapped off. I did that once when a guy tried to rob the store. Lucky for me he ran away before I figured out why I wasn't shooting at him."
"Yep. Lucky you. Even if I wanted this SP-01, the price is rather high." Again it is there at MSRP, $764.00. In my past purchases we have never been within 15% of MSRP.
"CZ barely raised their retail prices for 2010, but they raised their wholesale prices to the distributors and I get charged more for them. Lessee, the one you want would be $703.00." (MSRP=$703.00)
(I can get this pistol online for $609 shipped and a $20.00 transfer through my gun smith. No sales tax in Oregon).
I won't begrudge the man $74.00 dollars for keeping the lights on and having on hand two similar pistols I could grip for fit, but cripes, how much customer service skill is required to keep your mouth shut about WHY someone might want something?
The customer is always right, everywhere except at the local gun shop. I'll help keep his lights on if he'll learn to keep his tactical opinions to himself.
I have to give him some credit though, this time he finally decided not to try and push an XD on me.
I have three guns so far, all bought on line. All my ammo has been bought on line. I find it easy to shop around online and chances are visiting the local stores is not going to get me a better deal. I have bought accessories at the local stores either because I didn't want to wait or because the online shipping charge would cancel the saving on a low cost accessory. There again, there have been some cheap accessories that I bought online because I couldn't find them locally. I don't apologize for shopping online -- businesses are not charities and I don't have any ethical problem in shopping where my needs are best served.
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