No wonder gun stores go out of business

[Jonah71]

They treat me right at my local shop. I know they have to make a profit, but I have checked several on line gun sites and once shipping and everything else is considered they have beaten on line prices every time. There are also some gun shops in the area that are much like the one you are talking about. Totally crazy prices! Unless I just luck out and find a good buy, I've stuck with the same shop now for over a year. Being a "loyal" customer has it's advantages, especially in rural areas.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Small retail brick & mortars can no longer compete with Gunbroker, Wally World, Buds, or Auction Arms. I had access to one of the distributor's sites and I have no idea how Buds do what they do. They must make around 5% to 10% GM on each firearm or about the cost of what the small mom & pops buy at.

mxl
No wonder gun stores go out of business
Sat. I stopped in a store in Bullhead City, AZ. Their prices were crazy high. Examples: New Ruger LCP $500, Kel-Tec P3AT $400. Powder for reloading $35 a pound. All plus sales tax. I don't mind paying a lttle extra to keep a local business in business, but not that much. I can buy either of these guns on the internet, pay shipping and transfer fees and save over $100! It's a free country and they can ask any price but neither myself nor my friends do business there. They want $100 for a transfer fee. Guess they think nobody knows there are local FFL's who will do it for WAY less. It will be interesting to see if they stay in business--which I doubt. End of rant.

 

[Bubba613]

If there were a grocery store that had "crazy high prices" would you sit around and complain about? Or just not go there and let the market take care of itself?

There is one store around here that is notoriously the highest price store in the area. But they have "everything." If you want the newest, greatest, or hardest to come by, they probably have it. When I was there looking at O/U shotguns, they probably had 15-20 in stock, used new and consignment. All of that inventory costs money. Thus their prices are higher. They are also one of the most succesful stores around, probably for that reason.
OTOH, my store has probably some of the cheapest prices around. And I have anything you want, as long as it's in stock. But I still get people telling me they can buy it from Bud's and have it shipped to a hardware store in town. They owe the "Use" tax the state imposes but they never pay it. And that is the total of their savings. Facilitating tax cheats is not why I got into this business.

 

[hillbillydelux]

My issue with gun shops has always been the attitude factor. Too many employ the Rambo wannabes who treat with disdain anyone who doesn't come in wearing BDUs and talking in 10-codes.

Man that is the reason I now drive over an hour and a half to a decent gun shop. I live in Florida and I think it must be a rule here. Half the gun shops around me are filled with idiots. The last straw was when the local gun dealer tried to tell me I shouldnt buy the revolver I was looking at cause it didnt have a rail mount and I couldnt mount the rediculous pistol bayonette he was playing with. Then told me if I wanted a real gun I needed to get this S&W M&P .40 he was shoving in my face. I went in with the intentions of buying a super blackhawk he had in the case.

I did however find a decent shop that I currently do buisness with and the one old man that works there is great. Prices are not that bad. Besides I hate buying guns sight unseen so the internet is not an option.

Good gunshops are rare so if you find one I say support it to the max.

 

[danprkr]

I don't apologize for shopping online -- businesses are not charities and I don't have any ethical problem in shopping where my needs are best served.

Amen Brother! Now let us address the mythical term "reasonable profit"

I guess the phrase "reasonable profit" does not compute for the store you visited?

It's not about being unreasonable or dishonest in many cases. It's about a business owner being wrong in judgment. Most people do bad evaluations of the costs and pricing when opening a business, and so wind up working at Blockbuster and/or delivering pizza. Trust me I've made that mistake, and paid that price.

In theory it's a simple formula:
Sales price - (Cost of Goods Sold + Taxes & Regulatory Compliance + Cost of facilities + labor (often the largest of all costs)) = Profit AKA - store owner's paycheck

The trick is to get Profit number right so that you wind up hitting that happy medium between what you have to have to live and what the market will bear. If that is greater than what the market believes to be the mythical 'Reasonable Profit.' You're right back at Blockbuster and/or slinging pizzas.

Often times a business owner makes these lapses in judgment, and can't think of anything to do except raise prices to meet his needs. It works just like raising taxes lowers tax revenues. Just as those that can move to cheaper tax states when taxes are raised. Those that can find cheaper guns when they can do so thereby lowering revenue even further. This begins a cycle that ends only when the store can't pay anything else and has to close.

Sometimes there's no way out, but often the answer just the opposite of the raising prices strategy. Lower prices to the bone, and make it up on volume. But, a lot of stores can't do that due to space, staffing, and/or legal restrictions limiting their volume.

Which is why having made those mistakes I have no problem ordering online when the local place is stupid high. It is a self regulating system, and griping about those making a mistake does no good for either the griper or the gripee.

Trust me, griping does nothing but annoy the gripee who can't or won't change course. And, it's a waste the time for the griper. Of course sometimes the griper does enjoy it so if that's the case go right ahead. Just don't think it's going to change much of anything.

 

[jkingrph]

Brick an mortar establishments have a little more overhead than the internet.

That probably is the case, but $35/lb for powder. A couple of weeks ago in Longview,Tx I paid 19.95 for a pound in a small shop.

 

[ljnowell]

My local shop is pretty decent, and I try to buy there when I can, but the last few times I have gone, there is no parking, so I park illegally, only to go inside and find about seven or eight guys standing or sitting around, not shopping, just hanging out. usually in the way, and in no hurry to get out of the way. Literally, I had a guy in the narrow isle, in a rocking chair, cocked sideways, so that no one could pass. The owner was helping the only other peson in the place that looked like a customer, but to get to him I had to go back all the way around the store because rocking chair guy, and I had to ask all these other old timers to please excuse me as I walked between them in their conversations. When I got there, some other guy beat me to the owner, to tell him he was low on coffee, but not to worry, they would brew another pot. I shrugged, and walked out. Ordered a holster online. While I like to support a local business, parking illegally, then having to wade through loiterers etc. I just as soon buy online.

I guess, to be honest, I am one of those guys drinking coffee and hanging out in the LGS. Instead of being frustrated by it all, strike up a conversation with some of them. You may find they are some OK old guys and that they make good coffee. The little gunshop around here is a social environment, lots of old fellers talking about different guns they had, want, or sold. BS as deep as your hips sometimes, but all in good fun. who knows, you may find you a place to hang out.

 

[Bubbles]

I had access to one of the distributor's sites and I have no idea how Buds do what they do. They must make around 5% to 10% GM on each firearm or about the cost of what the small mom & pops buy at.

Bud's is a drop-shipper. Making 5-10% per firearm ain't bad if you never have to physically take posession of it.

 

[inclinebench]

I dont mind shooting the breeze with the old timers, and if I had time I might do just that. However, when I have a limited lunch break and it is a trek out there, I just want to get what I am looking for then get back to work before my lunch break is over. I just think that these when these guys are blocking isles, and keeping customers from being helped....they are doing a double disservice to the gunstore owner (who is a decent guy). I need to be able to park, be able to shop, and be able to pay for my items in a reasonable amount of time. When I cannot, I just buy online.

Oh, and IJ nowell....you dont by chance live in Christiansburg VA? That is where this particular shop is. If you are one of the old timers, then by golly I will sit down and shoot it for a few minutes with you.

 

[blakeci]

The shop I frequent is both an online and storefront store. They started online and then bought a retail store about 10 months ago. Their prices are actually cheaper than online and they are doing so well that they just bought a new store with three times the space, and are building an indoor range. Plus they are always very friendly, attentive and knowledgeable when I go in. They also have the best variety of any gun store I have seen around here, milsurps galore, plenty of "off the beaten path" used guns, plus all the new ones you could want.

 

[Jonah71]

I think the small, rural shop I go to depends a lot more on return customers (some from long distances) and turning over merchandise quickly with a little less emphasis on profit per sale. Their parking lot is always crowded.... while the really small Bass Pro shop makes a killing on about every gun sale and higher ammo prices at the local mall.

 

[wishin]

Of the three guns I have bought, one was shipped to a pawn shop and two others to an attorney.

A viable option. I know a local attorney that had an FFL. Since he's a firearms enthusiast, I presume he got it to facilitate gun purchases for himself. While he's never received any guns on my behalf, I'm sure he would have done so without charge.

 

[NMGonzo]

I buy all my guns used ... go figure that one out.

But I have stuff that I really want.

 

[Win1892]

I've not seen a response to the original poster that commented on the gun buyer demographic that a lot of higher priced shops target. Non gun guys or girls. I frequently send people into a well stocked slightly overpriced shop to buy because the guy at the counter will actually sell a S&W model 60, or a midline Kahr, or a GP100 instead of pushing a non enthusiast toward a $1300 Kimber. I own several Kimbers but I would never suggest a woman looking for a house gun buy any 1911. These counter guys will earn their money working with a newbie and they'll deserve it.

 

[Deanimator]

Small retail brick & mortars can no longer compete with Gunbroker, Wally World, Buds, or Auction Arms.

They CAN compete with Walmart, at least on things besides the most vanilla, generic firearms.

Walmart sells almost nothing of interest or use to me. Here in Ohio, they don't sell handguns at all. They sell no interesting rifles. I have and need only one shotgun (a seven shot Ithaca Deer Slayer Police Special) and they don't sell those either.

 

[rem700nut]

i understand they need more than an internet site Buuuuut when i stopped in a gunstore this summer on vacation ,not in my area.It was run by a father and son, they had one rifle for 500 more than for same rifle in the gun stores in my area, one pound of imr powder was going for 22.00 in my area they had big bunchs of it but for 33.00 a pound everthing like this,Yea i now the american way and maybe things diffrent in this area but son had brand new zr-1 corvette , dad king cab new 4x4 jacked way high and $ 400 a piece big mud tires , and them conplaining same thing they had to have more becouse they had a real store instead of web site . I think there toys cost more than anybody elses and sombody had to pay for it LOL raaant off

 

[cskny]

there's no question that some of the local shops are really nuts and a pain.

We used to have 3 close gun shops. 1 closed, the other burned down (I don't know, don't ask).

Anyway, since the other 2 are gone, the last guy has jacked his prices SKY HIGH. He wants crazy%'s over MSRP on most his stuff and won't negotiate. So you figure, all right, I'm trying to support you but come on, I can't!

So off to gun broker and I'll just transfer. Well, all of a sudden that last dealer wants $100+ per transfer. I found another shop bout 10 miles away, $125 for transfers! I have to drive 30 miles to find a reasonable transfer fee (and it turns out, not a bad dealer). But it's a multi-step pickup process for handguns, so you're doing those trips 2x.

I guess that's one way to try and combat the internet guys, huh? $125 transfer fees?

 

[tkopp]

That's how "Discount Gun Sales" works. MSRP or higher, $50 transfer on things they don't carry, $100 transfer on anything they have in stock. They have a pretty showroom, but that's all they have going for them.

How about their shooting range? $250 a year to be a member, and you still pay hourly rates at the booth. Want a locker to keep your weapon there? They'll rent you one!

 

[russ69]

I have a local shop where the prices are a tad high. I could drive an hour to a discount house but I usually buy from my local guy. They know my face and if I ask, they will discount the price in most cases. It's a friendly but good size store with a range downstairs. I haven't had to pay for using the range for the last ten years. So I spend a little more on guns and stuff and get some perks for being a semi regular. Price is not the only thing, you have to look at the bigger picture.

Thanx, Russ

 

[ljnowell]

Oh, and IJ nowell....you dont by chance live in Christiansburg VA? That is where this particular shop is. If you are one of the old timers, then by golly I will sit down and shoot it for a few minutes with you.

nah, I live several states over in the Peoples Republic of Illinois. Although, if I ever get out that way, I would take you up on it, I dont think I have drank coffee in a gunshop in your state yet.

 

[c5_nc]

The Attorney is probably just an FFL on the side. $20 for 5 minutes is pretty good money even for attorneys. And guns are probably a hobby for them. I've seen wholesale prices from several suppliers and it would be difficult for local ffls to keep a storefront open if they sold for what can find stuff on online. For example Classic Arms on AKs vs the Century direct wholesale and SOG wholesale, they are usually similar and often cheaper. That happens when you order $1m+ in guns each year from them, you get lower prices. I bought a Tokerev + 1260rd ammo online the other week for $250, the lowest price for gun is $179 and ammo $86 from lowest price wholesaler. I've bought Sigs from CDNN below wholesale, below even what my department can buy them for without paying FET. If you are one of the many people that can buy new Blue label Glocks for $398, most wholesale houses sale the consumer version with one less mag for $400-425. You can only get under retail LE prices buy being on the stocking glock program. If you want to see what your local shop is paying one of the better sources is to look at the Gun Genie/Gallery of Guns thing online from one of the largest suppliers to such stores (Davidson's). You can see the price variance by dealers in your area, most of what you are looking at is 15% or 20%, you can compare to each other and do the math from there.

 

[Prion]

Compete with Walmart? I reload so I skip the ammo, no reloading components, no handguns, generic Winchester labeled accessories and 1/2 dozen cheap rifles and shotguns. Walmart can't compete.

 

[c5_nc]

Although few take advantage of it, Walmart has a huge selection of special order rifles and shotguns. I forgot the exact amounts, but I have priced the rem 700 tacs and savage 10fps (low $500s) and Savage F-class ($900s). We have walmarts in our state that carry reloading supplies, I recall seeing "Varget spotted" type posts in our local boards.

 

[duns]

Guns sent to an attorney? Is he an FFL also?

Yes, the attorney is an FFL, Class III. I think most of his clients are buying machine guns and suppressors. I took delivery of handguns through him, for which he charges $30 per transaction.

 

[duns]

The Attorney is probably just an FFL on the side. $20 for 5 minutes is pretty good money even for attorneys. And guns are probably a hobby for them.

It's more like $30 for 20 minutes, which is very low pay by attorney standards, but you are right it is also a hobby for him.