45-70 expander die giving me fits

[coondogger]

I have a Lee dieset for 45-70. Here's the problem. I adjust the flare to accept a bullet without shaving it too badly. But if I flare it even a whisker more, the bullet will get pushed into the case. It's nearly impossible to get it set right. I'm at the point of getting another expander -- another brand maybe. The other dies in the set are fine. In fact, I've got an awful lot of Lee dies, accumulated over the years and have never once had problems with any of them. Until now.

 

[AJC1]

Check the noe expanders. 6.50 and go right in your lee die....

 

[coondogger]

I've heard of the NOE expanders for the Lee through powder dies or the Lee universal expanders. So how exactly do they work?

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Do your brass need trimmed to the same length?

 

[edwardware]

. . . if I flare it even a whisker more, the bullet will get pushed into the case.

Pushed in. . . by what?

You're flaring and seating in separate operations, yes? Are you saying that neck tension is far too low to hold the bullet?

 

[AJC1]

I've heard of the NOE expanders for the Lee through powder dies or the Lee universal expanders. So how exactly do they work?

They are just a plug that drop into the universal expander body. I have never even tried the original plugs as I got the body because I got the two step expanders.

 

[Walkalong]

Your sizer is too small, or your expander below the flare is too big. What does the expander die measure diameter wise?

 

[Soonerpesek]

But if I flare it even a whisker more, the bullet will get pushed into the case. It's nearly impossible to get it set right.

Please don't take this as a "JERKY" comment, but is your projectile at or near .458/ .459".........?

 

[bluejay75]

Use the Lee Universal Expander. It just bells. I have found that works better in situations like yours. Set it to your shortest case and have at it.

 

[Bernie84]

I had an identical problem loading 458 Win mag. My sizing die was reducing the case neck diameter to much, making it difficult to seat the bullet without bulging the case wall. The solution was to use a Lyman M die to bell the case. The M expander plug sets the case neck diameter to just slightly under bullet diameter and the step bells the case mouth to accept the bullet and let it sit upright. I now use M dies on all my cast bullet loads.

 

[Reeferman]

This may be what you are looking for. Cheap and fits the Lee die you have. I have them for loading for my trapdoor and works really well.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1178/1

 

[coondogger]

Use the Lee Universal Expander. It just bells. I have found that works better in situations like yours. Set it to your shortest case and have at it.

Funny you should ask. The first bullets I used were inconsistent. I mean they were all over the place. The purveyor said he was having a rough time; a small operation being overwhelmed by a tidal wave of demand. So I used some cast lead with gas checks and they gave me no such problems. I had meanwhile ordered another box of cast bullets (not from the first guy) and these are the ones this post is about. They are purportedly .458s. I measured them and they are as advertised.

 

[Charlie98]

The solution was to use a Lyman M die to bell the case. The M expander plug sets the case neck diameter to just slightly under bullet diameter and the step bells the case mouth to accept the bullet and let it sit upright. I now use M dies on all my cast bullet loads.

That right there... if the replacement ones for your Lee don't work. I actually use the RCBS 'M' die included in the Cowboy set, for .45-70, but have Lyman M-dies for the other 2 cast rifle cartridges I load for.

 

[Charlie98]

They are purportedly .458s. I measured them and they are as advertised.

That's probably part of your problem... why they are dropping in if you go too far with the expander die.

 

[coondogger]

That right there... if the replacement ones for your Lee don't work. I actually use the RCBS 'M' die included in the Cowboy set, for .45-70, but have Lyman M-dies for the other 2 cast rifle cartridges I load for.

I don't crimp for a Sharps. Do I have to with the M die?

 

[Charlie98]

I don't crimp for a Sharps. Do I have to with the M die?

You don't have to crimp, per se, but you will likely have to take the case mouth flare out. I don't crimp for my 1885, either, but I use a .45 taper crimp die to slightly knock the case mouth bell out for easy chambering. It's possible, depending on your whole setup and case mouth flare, that you can still set it to seat easily and not have to take out the flare... but it depends on your rifle's chamber.

 

[garandsrus]

I think that you are not sizing the brass enough. The expander shouldn’t be as finicky as what you’re experiencing. Your description of “not shaving the brass too badly” means that you aren’t expanding enough. You shouldn’t shave lead at all.

Try sizing a little more and see what happens. You probably want to expand another 1/2 turn deeper from your current setting. Having said that, the Lyman M die works very well. The Lee universal die also works well, but works differently than the M die since it just belles the case.

If the sizing die is screwed all the way to shell holder contact, remove .010 to .020 from the top of the shell holder, or try a different shell holder so you can set the sizing die deeper.

 

[MEHavey]

Observation1: Unless you are seated to engage the rifling -- yes, you crimp for a single-shot.

Question-1: Are you Full Length resizing ?

 

[Reeferman]

Coondogger I can’t help you out with other expanders as I use the Lee setup for my trapdoor that Spencer Wolf used. I am able to expand the case between .67 to .77 inch from case mouth depending on which bullet I use and expand the case mouth from .462 to .463 about .05 down from rim.
I use either the .459 or the .460 expander depending on bullet used.
They work very well and are inexpensive.