45-70 Load Check?

[lizziedog1]

I recently purchased a box of Hornady 325 grain FTX bullets to reload in my 45-70. The rifle is a New England Handi Rifle. I usually reload at the start of the medium range rounds, ones for the 1895.

The powder I want to use is Varget. I have had very good luck with it.

I have looked at all my manuals and on the Hodgdon website. I have found Varget loads using 300 and 350 grain bullets, but nothing for 325 grainers.

350 grain bulllets using Varget starts at 54 grains. I know that usually, using a lighter bullet in a given load should be safe, but that isn't always the case.

So, do you think reloading 325 grain FTX bullets with 54 grains of Varget would be safe? Has anyone here used these bullets in 45-70?

 

[fallout mike]

I was trying to find load data for the 325 grainers last night also. I'm sure someone will enlighten us.

 

[lizziedog1]

Most reloading data has three different levels for the 45-70. There is the trap door loads, the middle-of-the-road loads, and the Ruger No.1 loads. I didn't know where the New England Handi Rifle fit in. I called Hodgdon and asked about it using Varget.

He told me not to worry about it. With that rifle and Varget, you run out of case room before any pressure concerns arise.

I might just put together a few loads and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[x_wrench]

i just went through all of my prior loads, and the only varget that has run through my 45-70 has been with a 350g bullet. in my OPINION, it SHOULD be safe. my loadings were between 40 and 49 grains of varget with 350g bullets. sorry i can not help you more.

 

[lizziedog1]

Thanks x-wrench.

I'll just drop the load a few grains and give it a try.

The bullets do look interesting. They should be quite the thumpers out of a 45-70!

 

[flashhole]

I don't think you can put enough Varget in a 45-70 to cause an over pressure situation with a 325 grain bullet. If you have Hodgdon data they will publish the pressure and you will see there is plenty of headroom. The 350 grain bullet 61 grains of Varget tops out at 29,500 cup. I have been all the way up to 61 grains using 350 Hornady bullets in my Guide Gun. Accuracy fell off a bit but no signs of over pressure. I ended up at 57-58 grains for my loads. You're doing it the right way, drop down a bit and work up. If you want to step it up a notch try H4895.

 

[lizziedog1]

If you want to step it up a notch try H4895.

With a little Handi Rifle?

 

[flashhole]

Isn't the Handi Rifle rated for higher pressure loads than the old Springfields. Metalurgy has come a long way in the past hunderd years.

 

[b78-22250]

45/70

I have been loading for a NEF handi rifle for many years. I have two loads that perform great. 50.gr reloader7 300 gr. Sierra hp. Mostly starline brass and cci br2 primers. The second is the same except for a 400 gr Speer fp. My rifle did not like the 350's or the 3031 powder. The loads are level 2 loads. Yes the 400 is stout but not to bad. If your other loads fail to perform give these a try. Remember be safe and reduce your loads. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[lizziedog1]

Isn't the Handi Rifle rated for higher pressure loads than the old Springfields. Metalurgy has come a long way in the past hunderd years.

Its not the pressure, its the recoil. That little rifle can be brutal with stiff loads.

 

[Clark]

lizziedog1,
Yeah!

I did the strength calculations on a 45/70 handi rifle back in 1999 with the help of my father, the chief engineer who has designed lots of guns, and from a mechanical engineering professor.

I calculated it can take several times the pressure of the highest [Ruger #1] loads.

I fired one round of the lowest load [trapdoor] and it kicked me into next week.
I did not fire it again for more than a year.
I can take my 9 pound 338 Win mag 250 gr 2600 fps and it does not even hurt.

But that handi rifle combines the stinging pain, with the burning pain, with big push to way back there, with the hit in the head by the stock cheek.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'd consider trying H322 for your 45-70 loads...

It burns cleaner at the lower pressure levels...I know Varget will work, but it leaves a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel.

The same goes for Reloder 15 and H4895...they work, but leave a mess in the barrel.

H322 is about as slow as you can go in the 45-70 with "Marlin loads" and get a good clean burn, especially with the lighter bullets you are using...and its a VERY accurate powder. It is very much like Varget (both are "Hodgden Extreme" powders), but it is cut in smaller grains...to burn faster. I can't prove it, but I think the recipe for the 2 powders is the same...the grain size being the only difference.

 

[lizziedog1]

It burns cleaner at the lower pressure levels...I know Varget will work, but it leaves a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel.

You are right about unburnt powder. A friend once let be have several 500 grain bullets to try in my Handi Rifle.

I was using Varget. I knew that the recoil was going to be more then with the 300 and 350 grain bullets that I had been using. I was unpleasantly surprised by the kick.

It was way more.

When I looked down the barrel, there was no unburnt powder. I guess the heavier bullet allowed for a more complete powder burn. Thus, the more complete kick.

If you think that a Handi Rifle in 45-70 kicks, try one of thier slug guns in 12 gauge. It will kick the snot out of you.

I calculated it can take several times the pressure of the highest [Ruger #1] loads.

I have several Handi Rifles. I never did any type of mechanical evaluation of the gun, but just looking at the chamber one sees how much steel surrounds the cartridge. It does look like a strong set up. In fact, those makers of hot rod 45-70 ammo do include the Handi Rifle as safe for their loads. How safe it is for the shoulder, that is another story.

 

[Craigman]

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/45-70_1895-marlin_ftx.pdf

Look at this and read the text as well. Notes on trim length.....may not be necessaty for a single shot as it wont have the same feeding issues though.

4198 Is awesome in my little guide gun BTW
And no unburned powder with a 16.25" barrel

 

[geo57]

IMR 4198 does burn very cleany & efficiently in 45-70, even @ trapdoor level loads. One does not need thermo nuclear loads in the 45-70 for it to be very effective on big game, all the while being much more pleasant to shoot & enjoy for extended ranges sessions.

 

[NOLAEMT]

but the thermonuclear loads are so much fun though!

seriously, every time I shoot my guide gun i smile at the sheer power of that tiny little gun, and what a loud noise it makes.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Agreed 110%...

I love my 45-70, recoil and all...the 45-70 was a hard kicker over 100 years ago when it was new (those black powder loads THUMP), and its still kickin today (no pun intended)

I like it...350 grain boolits at 2,050 fps, or for the real kicker...405's at 1,900 fps.

The 405 load is sub-moa at 100 yards.

 

[lizziedog1]

Tried a few rounds today. Looks promising. Recoil is stiff, but tolerable. If I draw any big game tags, this might be the gun I am going to use.

 

[FROGO207]

I called the factory at NEF and talked to the person in charge of their ballistics dept a couple years ago. He said that while the hot #1 loads would not approach the proof loads they tested with, a steady diet of HD loads would weaken the latching mechanism and hinge pin causing eventual failure and recommended when reloading to stay at or below the modern rifle loads data or even with the trapdoor loads for low recoil rounds. I have a lot of fun with Trail Boss loads for the trapdoor in mine and it hardly recoils at all with that.

 

[lizziedog1]

The hottest loads I reload for mine are between lowest and medium range loads.