45-70 question

[swiss7.5]

The hodgdon's 2008 manual has a load listed for the 45-70(lever actions) i wanted to get your opinions on.

cci200 primer
300gr Sierra HP
powder H4198
Start 55.00 2221 fps 27600cup
max 60.0 2424 fps 40000cup

most other manuals do not load near this. I have double and triple checked that i am not looking at (Modern) numbers. I also went to their web page to double check and it is the same there. Is this wrong is it accurate? i just got an 1895 marlin and wanna do some testing

 

[SASS#23149]

1st off,don't forget that there are 2 '4198' powders..IMR,and Hodgdon's.
My 10 year old Hodgdon's shows lower numbers than that....48 to 52 grains/1956 to 2123 fps respectively.
Only problem is ,the hading reads "FOR MODERN RIFLES DESIGNED FOR HIGH PRESSURE LOADS ONLY"
does that mean Rugers AND Marlins??
the other chapter names Springfields for the lighter loads,but this chapter does not name names.

 

[swiss7.5]

Sass, the book states H4198 and that is what i am using. Also in that book i double and triple checked to make sure it ws for (lever) guns. It seems high to me just wondering what others thought? The other manuals i have range from 48-55gr as top side.

 

[nicholst55]

Hodgdon lists the same data on their website, and it's pressure tested. I would suggest working up towards 60 grains slowly, watching for pressure signs. I suspect that recoil will get to you before you see excess pressure signs.

 

[redneck2]

I just bought the newest Lyman Manual Friday. Your load is listed there under "Ruger Only".

In the lever section (1886Win and 1895 Marlin), IMR 4198 is listed at 36.0 to 41.0. Max CUP is listed at 24,800.

From the numbers you give, I suspect the pressures are correct, as Lyman lists a max for any lever loads at about 27,500. I don't know what the max safe pressures are for levers, or if the 1886 is less than the 1895.

I use 50.0 of Varget (listed loads are 50.0-56.0) with a 400 Speer in my 1895 Marlin. I can't imagine that you'd need anything more, but it's your ball game.

 

[NCsmitty]

Here's an article from the Realguns site.
J.A., the author does get a little technical, but may be interesting for Marlin 1895 owners.

The differences in CUP and PSI are confusing and have no accurate conversion formula.

Regardless of Hodgdon's listed Max, IMO, you should use the Min load of H4198 as the top of the chart. It still will be quite stiff and I'm guesstimating will be somewhere near 35,000 psi. There is no reason to stress the action with peak loads.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar52.htm

NCsmitty

 

[zeke]

Hodgen H-4198 loads for 45-70 levers certainly are hotter than any other manuals i am aware of. Part of the question may be what velocitys are the 300 grain jhp suited for? Am using 48.0-50.0 grains h-4198, Fed 210primer and winchester cases and Rem or Sierra bullets. This gets about 1850-1950 fps from guide gun.

Very accurate loads in that range.

Would strongly suspect pushing standard 300 jhps much faster would reduce their penetration (Speer's being the possible exception)

 

[moooose102]

well, i use imr 4198, so my data is going to be different than yours. BUT, i have loaded up so really hot loads for my marlin. once you get over 2100 fps, the amout of recoil gets pretty nasty. in addition, those loads that are at the max level, just do not feel right. they just feel to hot! i would suggest you not load them this hot. my gun did not self destruct, but from what i was feeling, i was getting worried about it. i like hot loads, but survival of me, and the gun is more important. also, i did contact hornady, and remington about the "speed limit" of their bullets. they both replied that realisticly, anything over 2100 fps was to much. and if they hit something going faster than that, the bullets would break apart when they hit. so, unless you know you will be hitting something that is at least 100 yards off, loading over 2100 fps is not going to get you the results you want anyway. my advice is to just not load that hot. there is no real benifit to it, and it is hard on the gun.

 

[swiss7.5]

interesting. Thanks for the input. I have been reloading a while and this is a new caliber for me so i was hoping to get as much advise as possible.

 

[mkl]

I believe the difference is the result of their being two sets of "1895" rifles.

The original ones, produced up until around 1935 are not as strong as the current Marilin version.

According to the Speer manuals, SAAMI seems to have set a limit of 28,000 cup maximum for "lever actions" which include both types of 1895's.

Hornady #4 makes this statement on page 453 regarding the new Marlin 1895's: This rifle is the same basic action as that of the 444 Marlin which operates at 40,000 cup.

They (Hornady) limit those loads for the 45-70 to 40,000 cup maximum.