45-70 Levergun Loads

[ArchAngelCD]

Before anyone tells me to buy a manual, I own dozens and I have all the links for the online data. This thread is only asking about a PET load for the Marlin 1895 I just bought. I have been loading lead bullets for a Trapdoor for years but have never loaded a jacketed bullet at levergun pressures.

What I'm looking for is a fairly light round for use in the Marlin. I have a box of Hornady 300gr JSP bullets I'm going to use. I checked the current Hornady #9 manual, the 49th Edition of the Lyman manual and the Hodgdon site, none of the data jives.

I have a lot of different powders including IMR4064, IMR3031, H4198, H4895 and others and I'm open to using what will be accurate. Like I said, I'm looking for a fairly light load because I don't want to hurt my already ailing shoulder but I still want a real 45-70 load.

No guesses please, only proven loads. I'm looking for your pet load for a levergun in 45-70 with a 300gr JSP bullet. I know all rifles are different but much of the time an accurate load is an accurate load, even in another rifle. I was looking at either 56.0gr IMR3031 or 48.0gr or 49.0gr H4198, what do you-all load?

Thank you...

 

[critter]

I have a nice, accurate, moderate load I use in my Ruger #1. It uses Rem 300gr JHP over a moderate load of IMR4198. It is very effective on deer and hogs. It should be quite good in your leavergun. Just try some variations till you get good accuracy. Horsepower will be ample for anything short of a backhoe.

 

[steveno]

in my Ruger # 1 45-70 I used 18 grains of Unique and the Remington 300 grain hollow point. it was good for 1,450 fps and 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards. it just took the bullets a little while to get there. a very pleasant and fun load to shoot.


as a side note anybody the shoots a 45-70 should also have a copy of Paul Matthews book "40 years with the 45-70". it also wouldn't hurt to have Mike Venturino's book on shooting buffalo rifles. there is alot of good stuff in the books as well as just good reading.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I assume you meant a Marlin 1895, not an 1885...
Of the powders you listed, the IMR3031 and 4198 are going to be the most useful for your purposes.

The confusion comes from a huge difference between JACKETED bullet data, as contrasted to CAST LEAD bullet data.

I use 4198 (either H or I, as these are far from "hot" loads), is excellent for your stated purpose. Anything less than 40.0gr with a cast bullet (lower barrel friction) gives me "hang-fires", so for really light loads avoid it.... with bullets less than 350gr.

I use 43.0gr of H4198 and an RCBS 300gr FNGC for around 1,900fps. This is a load that is modest of recoil, but will snocker anything in Georgia.... deer/black bear...
But, for general use, I prefer Alliant #2400. At 30.0gr I'm getting ~1,650fps from my GuideGun (18.5"bbl) and ~2moa accuracy. Bullets are "as cast" at 320gr with Hornady GasChecks....

For a Jacketed bullet load to duplicate factory 300gr JHP ammo, use 49.0gr of IMR-3031. A max load for your Marlin is 58.0gr for ~2,000fps. This isn't a pleasant load to shoot, however....
You can also use the above listed 30.0gr of #2400 with the jacketed bullet, for about 1,700fps from a 22" bbl. It's accurate and effective on deer sized game.....
Probably what you're looking for.

With the other slower burning powders, you'll have to use near full case loads and near max pressures to get good accuracy. These however won't be nearly as pleasant to shoot....

I've used BlueDot and Unique but find that they are only suitable for very light loads and can be dangerous becasue of the ease of double charging a case as powder volumns are very small....

Yes, I've loaded some 400+gr loads with IMR4064, Varget, and Reloader15 for over 2,000fps. They are even accurate.... but kick worse than some .458mags I've fired.... (11lb rifles "intended" for such...).

The other part of the confusion is over differing opinions of how strong the Marlin action is.
It's strong enough for 50,000cup loads from the .338ME, so, most of the even Ruger or M98 loads are "useable" in the Marlin. The Marlin action will "talk" to you if you work up slowly and "pay attention" to what it's telling you. If you are getting "sticky" extraction, you need to back-off. It's that simple.
With the .45/70, your shoulder will tell you to back-off before the rifle will......

So, use 43.0-45.0gr of H4198 or 49.0-58.0 of IMR3031. Your rifle and shoulder will tell you which is best for your application....

 

[greenmtnguy]

My "standard" 45/70 deer hunting load is 56 gr of H322 in Starline brass behind the Hornady 300gr XTP HP (4500) bullet. This is not a max pressure load, but it WILL definitely thump you if you aren't holding the rifle solidly. It chronos out of my full length 1895 Marlin at 2050 FPS and is generally a 1.5" @100 yard load for me.

Another load that I found to work pretty well is with IMR4198 and the 400 gr Remington JSP bullet. Same brass, but 37gr of IMR4198 has basically duplicated the Remington factory load for me (Chronos at 1360 FPS) but I need to tweak things a bit as it doesn't have the SD and isn't as accurate as I need it to be. I think IMR4198 can work pretty well at these low-mid power loads with the heavier bullets better.

 

[joecil]

My standard hunting loads are a 405 gr RNFP cast bullet some gas checked other not. I load with IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and GC rounds with RL-7 with no doubt they will stop most in this hemisphere. For target and plinking I use Unique, Universal, Trailboss mostly also with 405 gr bullets. My rifle is a Rossi Rio Grande which can't quite handle the pressure levels of the Marlins or Ruger but it does the job and even the old trap door loads with black powder work good in it also which I've loaded and shot a number of in it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have a nice, accurate, moderate load I use in my Ruger #1. It uses Rem 300gr JHP over a moderate load of IMR4198. It is very effective on deer and hogs. It should be quite good in your leavergun. Just try some variations till you get good accuracy. Horsepower will be ample for anything short of a backhoe.

Yeah, I know all about how to find a good accurate load and I also have a chrono to aid in that quest. With the shortage of components I didn't want to use up the normal number of loads because things are in short supply. (I only have 50 of those bullets on hand)

 

[greenmtnguy]

If you can find a box of the Remington 300 grn JHP bullets, they are usually pretty inexpensive and they seem to fly quite similarly to the Hornady JHP ones. They do not, however, hold together as well after they hit something. But you may find that for load development and target practice that they are fairly close. But, Remington doesn't have a 300 grain JSP to matchup with a Hornady JSP that I know of.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I assume you meant a Marlin 1895, not an 1885...
Of the powders you listed, the IMR3031 and 4198 are going to be the most useful for your purposes.

The confusion comes from a huge difference between JACKETED bullet data, as contrasted to CAST LEAD bullet data.

I use 4198 (either H or I, as these are far from "hot" loads), is excellent for your stated purpose. Anything less than 40.0gr with a cast bullet (lower barrel friction) gives me "hang-fires", so for really light loads avoid it.... with bullets less than 350gr.

I use 43.0gr of H4198 and an RCBS 300gr FNGC for around 1,900fps. This is a load that is modest of recoil, but will snocker anything in Georgia.... deer/black bear...
But, for general use, I prefer Alliant #2400. At 30.0gr I'm getting ~1,650fps from my GuideGun (18.5"bbl) and ~2moa accuracy. Bullets are "as cast" at 320gr with Hornady GasChecks....

For a Jacketed bullet load to duplicate factory 300gr JHP ammo, use 49.0gr of IMR-3031. A max load for your Marlin is 58.0gr for ~2,000fps. This isn't a pleasant load to shoot, however....
You can also use the above listed 30.0gr of #2400 with the jacketed bullet, for about 1,700fps from a 22" bbl. It's accurate and effective on deer sized game.....
Probably what you're looking for.

With the other slower burning powders, you'll have to use near full case loads and near max pressures to get good accuracy. These however won't be nearly as pleasant to shoot....

I've used BlueDot and Unique but find that they are only suitable for very light loads and can be dangerous becasue of the ease of double charging a case as powder volumns are very small....

Yes, I've loaded some 400+gr loads with IMR4064, Varget, and Reloader15 for over 2,000fps. They are even accurate.... but kick worse than some .458mags I've fired.... (11lb rifles "intended" for such...).

The other part of the confusion is over differing opinions of how strong the Marlin action is.
It's strong enough for 50,000cup loads from the .338ME, so, most of the even Ruger or M98 loads are "useable" in the Marlin. The Marlin action will "talk" to you if you work up slowly and "pay attention" to what it's telling you. If you are getting "sticky" extraction, you need to back-off. It's that simple.
With the .45/70, your shoulder will tell you to back-off before the rifle will......

So, use 43.0-45.0gr of H4198 or 49.0-58.0 of IMR3031. Your rifle and shoulder will tell you which is best for your application....

I was thinking about going back to the fast rifle powders like 2400 for the job. Lately I also gave AA5744 a try and that works very well in Trapdoor loads.

I know all about the 3 different sets of 45-70 load data and I was looking at both the Trapdoor and levergun data but like I originally said, even that data was in a big conflict.

This is what I'm talking about, all data is under the 45-70 Levergun sections:
Hornady 9 - IMR4198 35.8gr to 48.7gr
Lyman 49 - IMR4198 36.0gr to 41.0gr
Hodgdon Site - IMR4198 53.7gr to 58.2gr

Hornady 9 - H4198 42.3gr to 51.2gr
Lyman 49 -
Hodgdon Site - H4198 55.0gr to 60.0gr

Hornady 9 - IMR3031 50.2gr to 56.9gr
Lyman 49 - IMR3031 47.2gr to 52.5gr
Hodgdon Site - IMR3031 58.0gr to 64.0gr C

Now, we are all used to data being different in manuals and the powder sites but the difference here is much more than I have seen over the years! It's rare to see the Min of one source be higher than the Max of another. That's why I made this thread, to see what others have already successfully loaded.

 

[steveno]

I probably shot almost as much 2400 as Unique in the 45-70. they both work quite well. if you want to shoot the Elmer memorial loads and heavier go for it but they don't accomplish anything more than hurt a lot. I have been down that road before and wouldn't go back.

 

[Ric]

I use 25 grains of 2400 for both 405 and 300 grain loads

 

[bobnob]

My pet load is the 300g Sierra HP, with 54g of H4198, and a standard LR primer. These make about 2100fps in my 18 inch barrel and at 50y consistently group five rounds touching.

They are middle of the road for power and a devastating pig load.


Groups like this are typical of this combo, and this was shot over the bonnet of the ute.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

bobnob,
Thank you for the first hand information. If i get anywhere near that accuracy in my rifle I will be extremely happy!