twoblink
Member
I'm a bit fuzzy as far as where (in terms of power) the 45/70 goes..
I always thought it was halfway between 308 and 300WinMag. Or am I wrong?
I always thought it was halfway between 308 and 300WinMag. Or am I wrong?
45/70 questions
- Thread starter twoblink
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I think it's wrong to ever look at "power" or energy figures. It isn't power that takes the animal but getting into the vital organs and damaging those organs . It can be done in different ways. The 45-70 certainly has proven itself many times over in it's 125 years. I hunted with another fine old cartridge for years for deer , the 6.5x55 .THe only bullet I recovered expanded out to 45 cal. Well the 45-70 starts out at 45 cal !! The 45-70 is a low velocity round so it will not have the high velocity effects found in other cartridges. Comparing the 45-70 with the 300Win by power or other numbers is difficult ,it's apples and oranges. But choosing the right bullet and placing it properly they both work well.
In a strong gun like the Ruger #1 the .45-70 can be pushed to almost as much power as a.458 win mag. But in older guns this is a very unsafe thing to try to do. In the newer lever rifles it can be loaded hotter than factory offerings, but in doing so you need to be careful. In my Marlin 1895CB the hotter loads is more than I care to plink with recoil wise but wouldn't hesitate to go after big and bigger game with it.
TJC
Member
As kudu stated, with reloads or some of the custom ammo available today and the right gun, the 45-70 is all you need for almost anything.
I know my Marlin Guide gun with Buffalo Bore ammo is more power than I need for anything that I hunt.
I know my Marlin Guide gun with Buffalo Bore ammo is more power than I need for anything that I hunt.
twoblink
Member
Well, I basically want someone to ease my fear that if I put a 45/70 on my "to buy" list, that I can hunt decent sized animals with it. largest probably being something like a TX boar.. and maybe some whitetails in Oregon..
Will it do a TX boar??
Will it do a TX boar??
Smoke
Member
It does a wonderful job on pigs in these parts.
Smoke
Smoke
twoblink
Member
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigBore_levrAction/1895G.htm
Sexy!!
How's the recoil on this, anybody know?? Shoulder buster, or milder than most 12 guage shotguns..
Sexy!!
How's the recoil on this, anybody know?? Shoulder buster, or milder than most 12 guage shotguns..
Sunray
Member
The .45/70 uses big bullets going slow. The .308 and .300 mag both use smaller bullets going faster. Not the same thing.
But the .45/70 because you're a big kid and you want one. The felt recoil on a Marlin is like a push. Nice rifle, but can't be loaded as hot as a single shot Ruger. Not as expensive to buy either. The Marlin with a low magnification scope will serve you well. No point in putting more than a 4X scope on. Especially if you're hunting pigs.
But the .45/70 because you're a big kid and you want one. The felt recoil on a Marlin is like a push. Nice rifle, but can't be loaded as hot as a single shot Ruger. Not as expensive to buy either. The Marlin with a low magnification scope will serve you well. No point in putting more than a 4X scope on. Especially if you're hunting pigs.
Kurt S.
Member
Twoblink, I'm not sure about the Guide Gun version, but my 1895 carbine has about the kick of a full-size 20 gauge shotgun with light field loads. I have shot 405 grain SP, 300 JHPs and 350 grain plain lead loads. All were factory. I have not shot anything heavy out of it yet. Definitely not a shoulder buster. My 15 year old nephew is small and light for his age and loved shooting it when he was here, but then he's been shooting since age 4.
The 1895G, loaded with 300 grain SJHP's at about 1800 fps, "moves" a lot, but isn't painful. Be sure to give yourself enough eye relief. Works great on deer, should be about perfect for close pigs, too.
John
John
twoblink
Member
Got a friend who's got a bit of land in TX.. and I always see his boars.. Will probably go huntin' with him next time I'm in his neighborhood.
I (for some reason) felt if I'm in TX, maybe a 45/70 would fair me a bit better to the look of the locals than a 308..
But I recall your 45/70 was your go-to buffalo round back in 18xx... So I figured it wasn't a problem but wanted to check. Thanks!
Big and slow bullet, so probably a bit limited on the effective range??
I (for some reason) felt if I'm in TX, maybe a 45/70 would fair me a bit better to the look of the locals than a 308..
But I recall your 45/70 was your go-to buffalo round back in 18xx... So I figured it wasn't a problem but wanted to check. Thanks!
Big and slow bullet, so probably a bit limited on the effective range??
critter
Member
Well, yes and no. Very effective EVEN at longer ranges with the big ole bullet BUT very hard to hit with it at longer ranges due to the rainbow trajectory. Requires INTIMATE knowledge of the trajectory at different ranges and VERY ACCURATE range estimation.
Not much problem up to 150, maybe 200 yds. PRACTICE with it at these ranges!
Not much problem up to 150, maybe 200 yds. PRACTICE with it at these ranges!
Smoke
Member
My experience with the 45/70 and better commercial loads is they are pretty flat to two hundered yards. Start cranking the elevation from there.
Cowboy loads are a different story. Think of lobbing a softball.
Smoke
Cowboy loads are a different story. Think of lobbing a softball.
Smoke
MeekandMild
Member
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Just finished my first box of Winchester ammo out of my new 45/70. Everything is copasthetic except for the fact I used a target leaned against a six inch pine tree. Now the tree is full of holes. Big holes.
cdbeaver
Member
A 300-grain Remington HP pushed by about 40-43 grains of H4198 can be deemed a "mild" load, but it's enough to put a whitetail deer on its nose almost immediately if hit properly in the boiler room.
That combo worked well in my H&R Handi Rifle single shot with a 4x scope.
That combo worked well in my H&R Handi Rifle single shot with a 4x scope.
I was spotting at a long range shoot with a fellow shooting a 45/70 at 600 yards! Using ballistics software I calculated that his mid range trajectory was 12 feet high. The bullet took over one second to make the trip; funniest thing I ever saw. He pulls the trigger and I look through glass and some time in the future the target is hit. Even with rainbow trajectory, the 45/70 WILL shoot.
I have a 450 Marlin guide gun that I handload. The case dimensions are virtually the same between 45/70 and 450 Marlin, but the Marlin case is thicker so the capacity is a bit reduced. I tend to load towards the high side, but not nearly top load, and find the recoil heavier than 12 gauge duck loads, but not as much as 12 gauge full size slugs.
I will have no qualms using either 45/70 or 450 Marlin anywhere in North
America for anything.
Big Kahuna
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
I have a 450 Marlin guide gun that I handload. The case dimensions are virtually the same between 45/70 and 450 Marlin, but the Marlin case is thicker so the capacity is a bit reduced. I tend to load towards the high side, but not nearly top load, and find the recoil heavier than 12 gauge duck loads, but not as much as 12 gauge full size slugs.
I will have no qualms using either 45/70 or 450 Marlin anywhere in North
America for anything.
Big Kahuna
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Twowheel, those slow moving bullets ar e for those who are not the impatient types. After you have taken the shot you have time to put the gun away and have a leasurely cup of coffee, by the time you've finished the coffee the deer has gone down !!
The 45-70 will lob a 500 grain bullet, loaded to around 1400fps muzzle velocity to over 3500yards in about 20 seconds. At that distance it will still have the oomph to go through a good bit of meat.
It's also falling just about as fast as it's moving down range by that point...
Which means that hitting anything at that distance is all but impossible. The 1879 tests that provided those results used a huge target. I believe the sight elevation required was somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees.
It's also falling just about as fast as it's moving down range by that point...
Which means that hitting anything at that distance is all but impossible. The 1879 tests that provided those results used a huge target. I believe the sight elevation required was somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees.
Kurt S.
Member
Suitability to the Locals in TX
Actually, among many of the folks I know, you would be better accepted if you brought both the .45-70 and the .308 . Follow Sunray's advice!
Twoblink, I know hunters from all over Texas; Sierra Blanca to Sonora to Mineral Wells to Lufkin. Almost all of them use bolt actions from .25 to .30 caliber most of the time. I just started using the .45-70 lever action last year myself. Point is, if the folks I know are any kind of representative sample, you'd be just as out of place using a .30-30 1894 or a Ruger #1 in .338 as using that EBR (I'm assuming that's what your .308 is).
Actually, among many of the folks I know, you would be better accepted if you brought both the .45-70 and the .308
. Follow Sunray's advice!sitkablacktail
Member
I would like to add my $.02 I do a lot of hunting with the 45/70 and comparing it too a .308 (which I also own in a savage 99) is well difficult. The the .308 is high velocity and the 45/70 is low velocity both doing the same thing as far as "Power". The 308 uses small caliber light bullets traveling at high speeds to give the nessary destruction of orgin tissue were as the 45/70 uses large caliber heavy bullets traveling at slow speeds to do the same thing. The advantage of the 45/70 is that because of it low velocity tissue damage on the meat you eat is kept to a minimum, but your range is limited. Your hunting dictates realy what kind of rifle you should choose, close in fast shooting a lever action in 45/70, 44 mag or 45 Colt is the best and for longer range open country the 6.5x55 up to the .338 win mag would be the choice. Comparing the two calibers as far as power realy is unfair.
To: SteveW13,
Rule of thumb is that there is a gain of 50fps per inch of barrel length increase from 18.5 to 22". I'd guess you'd see at most a 150fps increase. While I have the short barrel, the longer barrel would be some advantage in a couple of areas: 1) longer sight plane with iron/peep sites and 2) added velocity/energy. The negative as I see it is the longer barrel is less manoeverable in heavy cover. It's also a bit heavier. It's a real head scratcher to choose.
Twowheel
Rule of thumb is that there is a gain of 50fps per inch of barrel length increase from 18.5 to 22". I'd guess you'd see at most a 150fps increase. While I have the short barrel, the longer barrel would be some advantage in a couple of areas: 1) longer sight plane with iron/peep sites and 2) added velocity/energy. The negative as I see it is the longer barrel is less manoeverable in heavy cover. It's also a bit heavier. It's a real head scratcher to choose.
Twowheel
twoblink
Member
I was thinking about that as well; the 45/70 should give less meat destruction.
And you folks give me way too much credit here.. (or not)
I'm an iron sight kind of guy, and while I can hit things at 400 yards with my M1A (talk about a huntin' rifle huh??
) I don't think I'd try anything past 200 yards anyways.
Any other manufacturers besides Marlin that makes 45/70 rifles that's more than a single shot?
And you folks give me way too much credit here.. (or not)
I'm an iron sight kind of guy, and while I can hit things at 400 yards with my M1A (talk about a huntin' rifle huh??
) I don't think I'd try anything past 200 yards anyways.Any other manufacturers besides Marlin that makes 45/70 rifles that's more than a single shot?
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