45-70 reloading (again) Trail Boss

[Bullseye]

Using a cast RN hollow point 325 gr bullet, I have used 53 Gr Benchmark and it was quite stout. I used 12 gr of Unique and it is accurate and punches well enough to kill a whitetail but is not a shoulder bruiser by any stretch.
I shoot these mostly at the range for target.
I have a 1895 Marlin lever guide gun.

Now I don't mind plinking with these bullets and I have 2 lbs of Trail Boss gathering dust and some heavier bullets at around 390 gr lead RN. Both are .458 diam.

My friend has a trapdoor Springfield and has shot it but has no ammo. I was going to load up a couple dozen rounds with Trail Boss and the Hodgdon site has starting loads for using Trail Boss.

45-70 Trapdoor 14.0 gr ( oddly for both weighted bullets ) 16 is max.

45-70 Lever No data given

I would load 14 gr for the Springfield trapdoor.
Do you think that I could fire the same bullets loaded with 14 gr Trail Boss from my lever gun or should I just try a lower powder load with Unique?
Say, 10 gr Unique for the Trapdoor? I'm sure that I could get the same to shoot out of my Marlin. We are going to shoot 50 and 100 yd. paper.
Thanks

 

[Jesse Heywood]

On the Hodgdon website, under data, is a pdf for TrailBoss loads in rifles. Gives load instructions, don't go with less than 70% of case capacity. Important part is to work up or down in steps, and be certain the bullet leaves the barrel. When working down loads, watch the target after each shot. If your eyes are good enough watch the bullet in flight.

Can't help on the Unique.

 

[stoky]

I haven't been able to get Trail Boss to work well in .45-70, which seems odd, because it works great in all other black powder cartridges I've tried it in. It's really fluffy (a lot of bulk for the weight). Filling the case >70% won't be a problem. I've tried a lot of different pistol powders and have had the best (but not great) luck with IMR4895.
The best powder I've found for .45-70 is 3031.
Someone should be along shortly, saying we should only use black powder.

 

[Stony]

I have an original trapdoor carbine that I've shot for years using a .405 cast bullet and 11.0 gr. Unique. I picked up the load from a Lyman cast bullet book years ago and it's worked great for me. Accuracy is good and recoil is very tolerable.

 

[Don McDowell]

I don't know as I would bother with Trailboss in an original bp era rifle. If you look at Hogdnons web data the pressure is right against the fire wall, yet the velocity is only about 3/4 of the original ballistics.
There's a ton of smokeless powder out there that will do a better job, give accuracy and appropriate velocity without the high pressures , low velocity and lackluster accuracy of trailboss.
And yes in that original trapdoor blackpowder will be the best bet....

 

[jmorris]

Trail boss does not come in 1lb containers, they are just over 1/2 lb (9oz).

Any loads safe for a trapdoor will not harm your 1895.

 

[Bullseye]

Trail boss does not come in 1lb containers, they are just over 1/2 lb (9oz).

Yeah you're right about the Trail Boss weight. I remember now buying it, and questioning the light canister at the gun shop.
I have two unopened bottles that are lighter than a lb.

I went ahead and loaded 18
R-P cases with 200 CCI primers 390 gr RN lubed lead bullets with 11.5 gr Unique and used a small section of toilet paper to keep the powder toward the primer.
Not packed down but pushed to meet the powder level.
I think I'll let my friend figure up his own load. It isn't my rifle so I'll let him make the call on powder. I'll let him use my dies bullets and brass if he wants.
I'll use the Trail Boss for some 45 LC down the road.

 

[Lafitte]

I use Trail Boss in .45/70 with a 405gr. lead bullet. I load the max charge listed in Hodgdon data and really like the results in my Marlin 1895.

Lafitte

 

[Bullseye]

Loaded a dozen ... maybe see how they do tomorrow. I have them a teeny bit over OAL. They feed smooth and eject. The OAL is supposed to be 2.55 and these are 2.563. If this is not acceptable, someone out here on THR should scold me.

I could still push them down a hair in my press. Next batch will be 2.55.
I went just a bump over starting load at 14.6 gr Trail Boss with these 325 gr lead hollow points. load range is 14.0 to 16.0 gr with Trail Boss.

The tips are flat enough to not hit a primer in the magazine.
Still I load them one at a time. I would think they are safe from having chain fire in the tube. What say ye?

I'll follow up after they are empty.

 

[stubbicatt]

Another choice I have had good luck with is AA5744 as a smokeless alternative. I shoot it in an original High Wall, and it works ok. The rifle and myself still prefer Old Eynsford 1.5F and 500 grain bullets, however.

It really doesn't take much to load black, if you are already loading smokeless. Really the only new tool you need is a wad cutter, or a $20 bag of wads, and BP friendly bullet grease. These rifles really do shine with black powder. Don't want to get too far afield, but it is easy enough to melt the commercial lube out of your bullets and re grease them with say, SPG.

 

[Bullseye]

Shot these as is without a problem. Distance 35 yds at a 9x9 1" steel plate and they all went pretty much on where I was aiming and I was only resting on a roll of carpet```. I could clearly see the bullets exploding and spreading out from the target but I was surprised at how little they penetrated the metal. All my previous handloads put a pretty good dent in the plate. You can count a dozen hollow point marks from this session. You can see my 12 gr Unique loads make quite the dent at a 45 yd distance that are painted over.
( I shot those standing and wasn't trying for center really, just trying out the loads. )
There was only shrapnel slivers of lead here and there at a wide area below the target. Very interesting. Next batch is going to be 15 gr Trail Boss with these bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

I use AA 5744 for reduced loads in .458 Win Mag, which gets it around .45-70 levels. I also use a 100% load density of Trail Boss for around .44 Mag performance. A 350 Gr bullet at about 1200 FPS.

Trail Boss should work great with lead in the .45-70.



On another note. No way in heck would I shoot that pock marked plate so close with even reduced rifle loads. For that matter, not pistol either.

You need to toss that plate and replace it with a quality AR 500 steel plate, and then follow instructions on how close to shoot it with rifles.

The pock marks will throw lead in unpredictable directions, and 35 yards isn't very far away.

 

[Bullseye]

Walkalong - I appreciate that, I am shooting down a hill and out a window of the back side of my shed at a bench. I would feel more concerned on level ground out in the open. Yeah, I suppose there's still a risk. I'll take your advice though.
I think I'll flip it around, the other side is still smooth. I'll use loads that only hit the target and don't crater it. The target is sitting down there now to the right side of my shed in that dirt area before the trees. There's a pic of my bench too. ( A work in progress )

Just a few days ago a friend told me a story about how his brother shot a BP pistol at an apple tree when they were younger and a ball bounced off the tree and hit him in the thigh and he went down like a box of bricks. He just had a huge welt for a couple weeks so your concern is a good one.

 

[Walkalong]

That sure is a sweet set up.

 

[Bullseye]

Got the wood burner in and the pipe installed. Yesterday I got 2 barber shop like arm chairs at a yard sale for 5 bucks each. here is a winter picture of the shed before I messed with it and the stove.
Whitetail and turkey run out back and an occasional coyote. If I can't get out hunting, I can always hang out in the shed.
and ...
A google earth pic ( My house is much nicer than the old pic now )

 

[au_prospector]

Location of next winter's THR annual meet and shoot. Contact sigsmoker for directions...

 

[Walkalong]

I'll vote for that.

 

[balderclev]

In my younger days, I shot a tin can with a 22mag at about 5 yards. Caught a piece of copper in my arm. It amazed me that I could get hit with a piece of shrapnel at 180 degrees with enough velocity to stick in my arm.