45-70 reloading data questions

[Dandude]

I'm trying to reload some 45-70 ammo and I have some questions I'm using 300 grain Oregon Trail bullets and I'm using Unique and Trail Boss smokeless gunpowder im using Winchester primers and 45-70 star brass.i cant seem to find any reload data for the unique and trail boss gunpowder Does anyone have any reload data on Unique and Trail Boss smokeless powder. Im using it on my Henry 45-70 All weather

 

[Dudedog]

Hodgdon does not list a Trail Boss Load for lever actions but does one for 1873 Trap door Springfield.
.45-70 listings come in 3 flavors from lowest max allowed pressure to highest. Trap Door Springfield, Lever Action, Modern (some type of bolt gun, Ruger #1 etc., in general New lever actions do not fall in the modern pressure range from what I have seen listed in the manuals I have)
Having said that Hodgdon lists for Trapdoor
.45-70 300gr
Trail Boss
.458" Bull dia
2.465" OAL
Start
14.0gr
1,199 Vel
19,400 CUP
Max
16.5
1,285 Vel
20,900 CUP

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Rifle-45-70 Trapdoor loads

I checked my Lyman manual and it does not seem to list any loads with Unique.
I seem to recall a post suggesting IMR-3031 but don't remember for sure.
You might try a new thread favorite powder for .45-70 in lever actions of something like that.

 

[Dandude]

Hodgdon does not list a Trail Boss Load for lever actions but does one for 1873 Trap door Springfield.
.45-70 listings come in 3 flavors from lowest max allowed pressure to highest. Trap Door Springfield, Lever Action, Modern (some type of bolt gun, Ruger #1 etc., in general New lever actions do not fall in the modern pressure range from what I have seen listed in the manuals I have)
Having said that Hodgdon lists
.45-70 300gr
Trail Boss
.458" Bull dia
2.465" OAL
Start
14.0gr
1,199 Vel
19,400 CUP
Max
16.5
1,285 Vel
20,900 CUP

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Rifle-45-70 Trapdoor loads

Thnk u you for the help ill give that a try im new to this

 

[Dudedog]

Your welcome and Welcome to THR, lots of great people here I am sure someone will have some suggestions.
(I don't load .45-70 myself so I can't really help much)
It might help if you listed the planned use, target shooting, hunting etc.

 

[Dandude]

Your welcome and Welcome to THR, lots of great people here I am sure someone will have some suggestions.
(I don't load .45-70 myself so I can't really help much)
It might help if you listed the planned use, target shooting, hunting etc.

Oh sorry these loads will be mostly for target shooting around 50 to 100 yards maybe take out a black bear or a cougar if I'm in the mountains if they want to start trouble lol

 

[cat_IT_guy]

I shoot the 14 gr trail boss load behind a Missouri bullet co 300 gr cast bullet. I don't recall exact velocity but 1200 seems about right. Shoot it out of my Henry out to 100 yards. It's enough oomph to be fun but isn't punishing.

 

[Dandude]

In shoot the 14 gr trail boss load behind a Missouri bullet co 300 gr cast bullet. I don't recall exact velocity but 1200 seems about right. Shoot it out of my Henry out to 100 yards. It's enough oomph to be fun but isn't punishing.

Nice im glad to hear a confirmation on that amount of grains I was able to pick up some Trail Boss for $14 for their nine ounce containers I didn't have the load data for that but I couldn't pass up that deal

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Is there a reason why you are only using Unique and Trail Boss? While not bad choices there are others including 2400. I think 2400 is a better choice than Unique.

I load a lot of 45-70 ammo with 300gr Cast bullets and 405gr Cast bullets. My current favorite powder is AA5744.

 

[stringnut]

Unique is a very fast powder for pistols and may not be a great choice for reduced loads. Biggest concern is that you can fit multiple charges in the case. Being human I am terrified of this as it can cause a PSE (pieces spraying everywhere). Have seen many posts that start " I have no idea what happened" that mention reduced loads with fast burning powders and have pictures of a wrecked rifle. It can be done, but, I stick to published loads.
Trail boss is great fun for a lot of things. Someone did post some data for it. If you have no data you can fill a case to the bottom of the bullet. Do not compress. This is a starting load. 70%of that amount is your starting load. Has worked great in everything we have tried it in.

My two favorite powders when I had a 45/70 were 5744 and I'm really 4198. 5744 was good for mid range loads. Used 4198 for back you out from under your hat loads. 300 grain bullet at 2300 fps over the chronograph. Recoil was brisk to say the least. Did what I wanted it to do which was flatten deer at close range to keep them from getting into the Beaver dams and brush.

 

[dh1633pm]

I use AA5744 for my 45-70 loads. I did load some up using Unique. Like stringnut says, its a little bit of powder in a great big case. I used a wad of toilet paper to hold the powder down. It does work. But with great work come great responsibility. Check, check and double check you loads. I am at work, but I could check my log book to see what I used when I loaded for it. I stopped using it because AA5744 is a lot of power in a big case. Much harder to double load the stuff. Same with Trail Boss. A side benefit is AA5744 can be used with almost anything that shoots lead.

 

[Dudedog]

Dandude, no need to be sorry.
The only reason I made the suggestion is to try to help you get the info you need.

 

[ilmonster]

I reload similar to what you're trying to accomplish. I reload 300 gr. MBC RNFP bullets over 15.0 gr. of Hodgdon HS-6 for around 1150fps. It's a real enjoyable round to shoot for paper and steel. If you're looking for lower power recipe's for the 45-70, go to gmdr.com where they will have load data for Unique and also an article with the reasoning why/how you can use a very fast pistol powder in a large case such as the 45-70. You also want to make sure you don't ever have a double charge of pistol powder in a 45-70 case - could make for an exciting day. I visually check each round. Trialboss load data is on the Hodgdon website.

That aside, I've shot around 150 rounds of the HS-6 loads through my 22' Marlin 1895 and it is super enjoyable to shoot. Can shoot it all day. It's fun chucking giant chunks of lead downrange in a rainbow trajectory!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like I said above and being in agreement with togethers AA5744 is a great choice for the 45-70.

I used mostly 4198 in the 45-70 for a very long time and on the rare occasions I load a jacketed bullet I use 3031. You can use most powders going as slow as Varget but like I said, AA5744 is my current favorite and will probably stay that way for a while. Unfortunately it costs a lot more than most other powders. Recently I was down to my last pound but a month or so ago Cabela's had a good supply and I bought two bottles. (@ $38 a pound over there other powders @ $28/lb.)

 

[klausman]

There are numerous loads for the 45-70 using Unique and similar powders. We should note that when Unique was invented in the late 1890s, it was as a "gallery" or reduced load powder for rifles and lead bullets.

Here are a couple of interesting places to look.

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane2.html

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane3.html

www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm

This is all very interesting reading.

I have tried a number of these loads, and they work pretty well. They are VERY quiet, and since the bullet is so slow, they offer no recoil either.

I have never been in favor of using fillers like kapok in cases, so there is only a little powder in a large case as mentioned. Yes, double or more charges are a possibility, so great care is required, but then isn't it always? Especially when you first try any of these loads, it is the wise man who will look down the bore to be absolutely sure that the bullet has in fact cleared before firing the next.

Enjoy, and be careful out there.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

klausman, while I agree Unique was used very differently over a 100 years ago frankly there was no other game in town. If you look back at the original cans of 2400 it was "2400 Rifle Powder" which is also very different than today.

There are probably over 100 powders available today, why settle for anything but the best for your guns?

 

[Dandude]

Is there a reason why you are only using Unique and Trail Boss? While not bad choices there are others including 2400. I think 2400 is a better choice than Unique.

I load a lot of 45-70 ammo with 300gr Cast bullets and 405gr Cast bullets. My current favorite powder is AA5744.

The trail boss i got for 14$ so i bought it the Unique was recommended by the store i dont mind getting the best powder but every one has their own "best" powder im just waiting for my lyman book to be delivered in a few days so i can do some studying

 

[Dandude]

Like I said above and being in agreement with togethers AA5744 is a great choice for the 45-70.

I used mostly 4198 in the 45-70 for a very long time and on the rare occasions I load a jacketed bullet I use 3031. You can use most powders going as slow as Varget but like I said, AA5744 is my current favorite and will probably stay that way for a while. Unfortunately it costs a lot more than most other powders. Recently I was down to my last pound but a month or so ago Cabela's had a good supply and I bought two bottles. (@ $38 a pound over there other powders @ $28/lb.)

Nice ill have to see if my local dealer's sells thoses powders thank u

 

[Dandude]

There are numerous loads for the 45-70 using Unique and similar powders. We should note that when Unique was invented in the late 1890s, it was as a "gallery" or reduced load powder for rifles and lead bullets.

Here are a couple of interesting places to look.

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane2.html

www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane3.html

www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm

This is all very interesting reading.

I have tried a number of these loads, and they work pretty well. They are VERY quiet, and since the bullet is so slow, they offer no recoil either.

I have never been in favor of using fillers like kapok in cases, so there is only a little powder in a large case as mentioned. Yes, double or more charges are a possibility, so great care is required, but then isn't it always? Especially when you first try any of these loads, it is the wise man who will look down the bore to be absolutely sure that the bullet has in fact cleared before firing the next.

Enjoy, and be careful out there.

Thank u for the info i appreciate it

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The trail boss i got for 14$ so i bought it the Unique was recommended by the store i dont mind getting the best powder but every one has their own "best" powder im just waiting for my lyman book to be delivered in a few days so i can do some studying

I know everyone and every gun has its favorite powder, that's why I said "best for your gun."

The gun store clerk expert strikes again. He is not correct, Unique is not a great choice. Like I said above, I would have agreed much more with 2400.

 

[Dandude]

I know everyone and every gun has its favorite powder, that's why I said "best for your gun."

The gun store clerk expert strikes again. He is not correct, Unique is not a great choice. Like I said above, I would have agreed much more with 2400.

I dont think they had 2400 but ill check i dont mind buying more powder

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I dont think they had 2400 but ill check i dont mind buying more powder

No, no, no, I wasn't telling you to use 2400. I was saying if the clerk was going to pick a handgun/shotgun powder 2400 would have been a better choice, one that has much more data.

I would look for AA5744 and then 4198 in no AA5744 can be found.

 

[Dandude]

No, no, no, I wasn't telling you to use 2400. I was saying if the clerk was going to pick a handgun/shotgun powder 2400 would have been a better choice, one that has much more data.

I would look for AA5744 and then 4198 in no AA5744 can be found.

Ok sounds good i think i saw some 4198 there if i recall but ill look for aa5744 first thank u for the help

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm glad to help. I hope you have the same success with those powders as I do.

 

[klausman]

I don't know how to quote another post, so I'll just respond to Archangelcd's comment.
There is no doubt that there are other "better" powders for reduced loads among the many powders we have to choose from today.
The OP asked about Unique, and I provided some places to look with some interesting and historical information. I have tried some of these loads, and they work pretty much as advertised. It was a fun thing do do.

I think that word best sometimes gets the better of us all. (-:

 

[stoky]

I've had better luck with fast rifle powders than pistol powders. I had a good 200yd target load with 4198 and a fiber wad. It was better with IMR 3031 (no wad).
No joy with Trail Boss either, although I really like it for every other black powder cartridge that I've tried it in.
My disclaimer is that my Sharps likes heavier bullets.
I have had a lot of FTF recommendations for 5744, along with the cyber buzz, but I haven't tried it.
HTH