45-70 Reproduction questions and advice needed

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TheFlynn01

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Hello there folks!

So, to make a long story short: my brother got some old trapdoors, and ammo is hard to find. I have reloading equipment, and he knows it. He went and got me a die set so I can reload the old 45-70 Gov for him. As I now have the die set, I figure I should get something that chambers the round.

I know there are a lot of reproductions that shoot it. Trap doors, High walls, Sharps, Rolling blocks. Who makes the best reproduction, which of these is the best bang for their buck? Are any more reliable than the others, less prone to breakage and issues? Do they all use the same low pressure smokeless data?

Sorry for all the questions but I would love some advice with it. I never have gotten a reproduction rifle before... or a new rifle before for that matter. So I would love some education!

Thank you all for reading!

Mike
 
If you just want to shoot and have fun, any of the repro's are fine. Just pick one you like the looks of and go for it. None of them are cheap. Most people consider the Pedersoli guns to be the highest quality of the Italian repro's. They are slightly more expensive than the others. I don't think there is a bad Italian repro, but I have little experience with them. A Cowboy Action Shooter would be a good source of info. Perhaps Driftwood Johnson will weigh in.

I'm pretty sure all of the repro manufacturers will warn you to not use reloads at all ( this is standard industry practice ) but they are all safe with "Trapdoor" loads. The High Wall, Sharps and rolling block, can handle "Marlin level" loads. The question is, can your shoulder? I myself see no benefit for using hot rodded loads in this caliber, unless you are hunting large bears. There are better calibers with much greater range for elk and moose.

With the price of jacketed bullets, and ever store bought cast, a mold and melting pot would pay for itself before long.

If you load for those "old trapdoors" stick to black powder and stay away from 4F. It is never used as a propelling charge in this caliber. A case full of 4F behind a heavy bullet would probably blow up an old trapdoor. 3F is OK for the lighter bullets. 2F is ideal for the big 500 grain loads. If you must load smokeless, stick to the "Starter" loads. Those guns are over 120 years old. respect that.

Hopefully those with far more knowledge than I will weigh in.
 
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my Pedersoil 45/70 is an absolute masterpiece, fit and finished, beautiful blueing, nice wood!!! good trigger

I don’t shoot it, because I like looking at it. I have actually never shot it. So OP, get a Uberti and shoot the living daylights out of it
 
I've got 1 Shiloh 74 #1 Sporting in .45-100 (2.6") that is spectacular and I won a few LR and buff matches with.

I've got 2 Ballard Rifle and Cartridge (Cody , WY, no longer made) 1885 High Walls in .45-90 (2.4") and .40-70W (modified 2.4" cases) that I used in BPCR Silhouette matches. I've also got an 1885 Low-wall in .22LR from the same company.

All are fantastic repos, but each one went just shy of $5K when combined with MVA sights.

For a fun gun that won't break the bank I'd look at either a Pedersoli or Uberti. I shot a "74" and before that a "75" for years in matches before converting to an 1885. Honestly the 1885 is a superior design, especially when it comes to competitions. It's a faster and lighter action.

I loaded and competed with pure black; Goex and Swiss, but modern repos will all handle smokeless.
 
I only have experience with a Pedersoli trapdoor calvary carbine. It's a beautiful rifle with nice figured wood. I use unique under a 405 grain cast lee. Its pleasent to shoot.
One of my favorite purchases.
 
Thanks for all the replies! Its so hard to pick.... I am glad the Italian repos are good make!

With the price of jacketed bullets, and ever store bought cast, a mold and melting pot would pay for itself before long.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that, I actually cast boolits. I have a old ross rifle that is... well used. So I got into casting to make over sized rounds for her. Its alot of fun! So I am kinda excited at the idea of casting for a new gun. Those big huge boolits are just neat to me! No idea why, but it just tickles me haha.

So Shiloh looks neat but those are pricy for sure, and they seem to be out of stock. I would want to go American if possible, but it is what it is. I am torn between the Sharps and the 1885 High walls. Both have this neat look to them and remind me of the Martini Henry, which is just cool to me.

If I understand what you are all saying, the modern repos are strong enough for smokeless, and the trapdoors I should baby, which is good. I have made light loads for my brother and they are doing well so far!

I really do want to make up some black power rounds, but that will be a new one for me. It just seems cool. I got to shoot some muzzle loaders before and its just neat! Which of these rifles make good reliable trekkers? I want to be able to take it hunting, and I dont do stands. I like to go stalking, and while I am very careful... accidents happen. These old cowboy guns always seem so... robust to me. Though that might just be me idolizing them haha
 
I have a Pedersoli Sharps that is very accurate and well made. I also have a Uberti trapdoor carbine and it is fun to shoot and also well made. I looked at both rolling block and highwall versions but they just didn't fit me as well.
Best of luck in your search.
 
How heavy is heavy? I am used to surplus rifles so I am sure I will be okay. I will just keep my eye on it haha.

What sort of rounds do you all feed them? Any mould or grain weight recommendations?
 
tark said:
An M-10 in .280 I presume? I have made a die and I have found that you can actually Swage .284 diameter JHPs UP to .288 with a good whack of the hammer. They shoot quite accurately
Click to expand...

Nope, one of the 303's I heard the 280 is neat to shoot though!
 
I'm actually quite happy with my "Cimarron Arms" (importer, actually manufactured by Chiappa) Sharps 1874 repro. Decent wood, nice color case hardening, and pretty inexpensive.
Chiappa .45-70 20210613_203040.jpg Chiappa .45-70 20210613_203103.jpg
You'd better hope to get a good one. Cimarron's customer service was a fistfight for months after 1 round fired, including addition damage AFTER the return repair was made.

-jb, nice, after they got it right
 
An original trapdoor, in shootable condition, can often be found for less than the cost of a replica. I have shot many. They all shot well enough to give comparable replicas a run for their money.


Kevin
 
One of those CVA Scouts is probably the most literal bang for buck right now, but hardly a reproduction of anything.

I like my Ruger No. 3 just fine, but it's long out of print and good examples are getting pricey.

I suppose if I was doing the shopping, right now my tastes would run towards a 1885 High Wall, Rolling Block or Trapdoor reproduction.
 
I am a little fuzzy here, no real shock there I know.

Are you wanting something else that shoots 45-70 because you can't find "factory" rounds that are safe for trapdoor, are you wanting just something else in 45-70 because now that you can reload you want something strong enough to hit the moon?

I have an old "original" trapdoor and I shoot the hell out of that thing. Like the other poster said finding "trapdoor safe" smokeless loads is pretty easy, as you reload you already know this. I am going to guess that is it a well I have dies now lets get a few other new things to play with. Just don't mix them up.

I have a marlin 357 lever rifle, most of the time I shoot 38's in it. I also have an old colt police positive in 38, those get loaded pretty darn soft, basically a "cowboy" load. Both boxes have it written all over them LEVER GUN ONLY. They are darn warm, and would not be good in that old revolver.

My suggestion would be find yourself a loading for 45-70 that your trapdoor likes and load it up and have some fun, they are so much fun to shoot, so mechanical.

In my reading it is suggested to keep pressures in the mid teens for CUP pressures. I found a loading with VV powder that is around 14000 psi, and flings a lead 405 at roughly 900fps. Minute of indian accurate, it is what they got used for. Has to be one of the most fun rifles I have.
 
Thank you for all the input and the links. I have been asking around and found a local guy who is willing to part with his IAB sharps. I have not heard of IAB at all, and doing some google, I am getting mixed results. Are they even still around? The guy was trying to tell me they are the same as Pedersoli... but I dont know if I buy that...
 
IAB Sharps…They have a working pressure of 18000psi. (Strictly black powder) complaints of chambering issues and mechanical failure. Maybe not the best bet.
 
Sholoh or C Sharps or perhaps a Browning 1885 clone in 45/70 would be my choice,I've a Shiloh Sharps and a Browning 1885 both are a blast to shoot but the Browning has something of a short throat but it will handle some pretty stout loads.
 
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