45 acp cast rejects

[Laphroaig]

I've been loading 45 acp for a few years now. I started with 230 gr. fmj without a hiccup. Last year I started loading 185 gr. swc's, .452 diameter.

It took a couple of attempts to get ammo that would reliably chamber, including the purchase of a case gauge. I load single stage with mixed brass.

Over the weekend I cranked out 300 loads, of which 25 were rejects, or ones I don't think will chamber easily. This is by far my best effort to date. My acceptance criteria is a "modified" plunk test in my gauge. Modified meaning they might not "plunk" in the strictest sense but I feel they will chamber OK due to the slide giving them a little push.

So how's that reject rate compare with your experience? I did learn that by running them thru my seater die again (often a couple of times) many rejects finally slid in the gauge. Also, all 25 rejects were PMC brass. My brass is mixed and many are PMC.

Laphroaig

 

[noylj]

You seem to have very serious problems. Determination of the problem is the first thing to do. I don't use a case gage and consider 1 round in 1000 that doesn't chamber to indicate that something is wrong.
Most problems like this stem from use of an expander plug that does not size up the ID of the case enough. This leads to the bullet seating crooked and a bulge forming on the case at the base of the bullet. The case ID, over at least most of the distance the bullet will be seated, should be 0.001-0.002" less than bullet OD for proper bullet tension and seating the bullet "square." Any smaller, and the cast bullet will either be swaged down in diameter (unevenly, making the bullet inaccurate and causing barrel leading) or the bullet will seat crooked and push out where the case wall is thinnest.
Case gage: a toy for those too lazy to use the one that came with the gun.
Take a reject, and coat the bullet and the upper half of the case with Magic Marker, drop in the barrel and rotate back-and-forth a time or two. Remove the round and look at the scratches.
If the bullet ogive has scratches, the COL is too long.
If the case mouth has scratches, the case mouth flare wasn't removed enough.
If the case near the base of the bullet has scratches, get a proper sized expander or, in the case of some reloaders, actually USE an expander insert and not just a case mouth flaring insert (like the "powder funnel" or the Lee Universal Expander that doesn't expand, it only flares).
If you are running a loaded round through a sizing die, you have destroyed the cast bullet for accuracy and probably also lost almost all the bullet/case tension. Not a good thing to do.
At the very least, get a Lee .45 FCD and the Bulge Buster kit and run all your cases through the Bulge Buster after case cleaning.
You can run all your rejects through the FCD also, but don't expect great accuracy if the bullet is swaged down any.

 

[horseman1]

I had a little trouble using the bulge buster in 45 acp. It seems that the diameter of the head on some brass was too large, and it deformed this area when pushed through. Maybe you wont have any issues or maybe I had some unusual brass, not sure. Didnt make a note of which headstamp it was. I stopped using it at that point for 45.

I used the heck out of it for some 40 sw range brass though.

 

[noylj]

Never had any problem with the bulge buster. Case heads get dinged up and old cases are more dinged up. I never got any deformation of the case head and not sure if that would affect functioning any way. Also, a little case lube can help.
I got a 9mm MAK FCD just so I could run 9x19 and 9x21 cases through it.

 

[Laphroaig]

If the case near the base of the bullet has scratches

This is my problem. I've always figured some of the bullets were seating crooked and causing the problem. I'll mike my expander plug and see if its too small. I'll also research the expander insert because I've never heard of that before. I'm using RCBS dies.

And no, I'm running the loaded rounds back through the seater die. Somehow that must be straightening out the bullet after the fact. Thanks for the input and possible solutions.

Laphroaig

 

[jimbob123]

if you are seating and crimping in same step i bet that is your problem.as you are pushing bullet into case and squeezing[crimping] neck you are buckling case is my guess.i load on a single stage also and like the ability to feel how much crimp is being applied.separate seat and crimp steps and your loads will be better.JIMBOB123

 

[ReloaderFred]

Have you tried these rounds in the chamber of your pistol? That's what you're going to fire them through, and it's the real gauge of what will fit and what won't.

PMC brass is thicker than some domestic brass. In fact, it's right behind Winchester in thickness in .45 acp. I use it to form .400 Cor-Bon, just because it is thicker and stronger.

The bottom line is if they chamber correctly in your pistol, then they're good to go.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[grubbylabs]

I second the separate crimping die. My XD would eat almost any thing, but my Kimber is really teaching me how to build a proper and in-spec 45 round. And the Crimping die seems to have really helped

 

[gibekim]

I would seat and crimp in separate steps. Use a light taper crimp to close in the flare of the expander. That should help.

BTW - Great Scotch. I like the Quarter Cask when you can get it. Ten Year is usually what the stores carry.

 

[Iron Sight]

I have run into this a couple of times with lead .452s. The projectiles required resizing.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/116429/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-452-diameter

 

[Lj1941]

FCD

I use a Lee FCD and never had any problem with bulged cases on the 45 ACP. Before I started using the Lee dies I had nothing but problems like you described. The Lee die sizes as well as crimping the handload.

 

[Rule3]

Over the weekend I cranked out 300 loads, of which 25 were rejects, or ones I don't think will chamber easily.

Laphroaig

First , why would you load 300 rounds if you are unsure if they will work??

You say " or ones I don't think will chamber easily. " ??????

You think? They either do or don't.

Anyway the bottom line on those 185 gr SWC is the exact OAL. A fraction over or under will create problems in them feeding correctly Manually cycling the gun is no real test. It does not simulate actual firing.

Do the rounds not chamber or not feed. I am not sure what you are saying. The plunk test is just that, to chamber, feeding by letting the slide go is a different matter.

The type of gun also can be an issue, some just do not like SWC, what gun are you using??

The 185 SWC "generally " needs to be seated with just a fingernail or so space left on the driving band. I battled with them for a while before I found the magic OAL for my guns.

 

[Laphroaig]

You think? They either do or don't

Whoa. You sound like my old boy scout leader

Sorry I didn't explain more clearly. to summarize, I've been using this ammo for bullseye competition last summer. On occaision, generally with PMC brass, a bullet gets slightly cockeyed when seating, forms a slight bulge in the case. I've been handling it by separating the ones that I think might hang up during rapid fire stages. Using them for practice. Actually I shot 40 rounds of the referenced reloads this week including some of the alleged "rejects" and they all chambered. So more of an annoyance to me than a serious problem.

But I wanted to learn why that was happening. NOYLJ gave me a nice tutorial that explained why I am having a problem. I'm more of a rifle loader and don't fool much with cast boolits. In this case I think my RCBS dies size cases for 0.450 fmj's not the 0.452 cast I am loading. My boys cranked out 300 more rounds of 230 fmj with the same dies that are the most perfect handloads that you've ever seen. The RCBS dies that I have do not have and expander plug in either the sizer or flaring dies.

Anyway, I decided to get a Lyman M die for 45 pistol which had a 0.450 expanding plug. I will see if that solves my problem and I will report back when I get a chance to prep up some brass. Thanks again.

Laphroaig

 

[ReloaderFred]

The Lyman M die is a perfect choice for loading cast bullets. It's made especially for that application, but works equally as well for jacketed bullets.

For information, jacketed .45 acp bullets are normally .451" diameter, not .450".

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Rule3]

Whoa. You sound like my old boy scout leader

Sorry I didn't explain more clearly. to summarize, I've been using this ammo for bullseye competition last summer. On occaision, generally with PMC brass, a bullet gets slightly cockeyed when seating, forms a slight bulge in the case. I've been handling it by separating the ones that I think might hang up during rapid fire stages. Using them for practice. Actually I shot 40 rounds of the referenced reloads this week including some of the alleged "rejects" and they all chambered. So more of an annoyance to me than a serious problem.

But I wanted to learn why that was happening. NOYLJ gave me a nice tutorial that explained why I am having a problem. I'm more of a rifle loader and don't fool much with cast boolits. In this case I think my RCBS dies size cases for 0.450 fmj's not the 0.452 cast I am loading. My boys cranked out 300 more rounds of 230 fmj with the same dies that are the most perfect handloads that you've ever seen. The RCBS dies that I have do not have and expander plug in either the sizer or flaring dies.

Anyway, I decided to get a Lyman M die for 45 pistol which had a 0.450 expanding plug. I will see if that solves my problem and I will report back when I get a chance to prep up some brass. Thanks again.

Laphroaig

You never said what dies you are using but any brand should be able to correctly seat the bullets, buying new dies does not necessarily fix what is wrong if in fact any thing is.

185 gr LSW are more finicky the 230 gr RN as far as seating depth, as I mentioned I farted around with them until I found the "sweet spot" that would feed and chamber correctly. Some feed ramps just do not like the LSWC.