45 ACP - Conflicting Load Data

[RDA 226sig]

Maybe Walkalong or RC Model can help me out. I am working up loads for a full size 1911 chambered in 45 ACP and found several threads touting the merits of Universal Clays but the Hodgedon load data is very different from what is given in the Hornady 7th Edition and yet a third value is given in a cartridge specific reloading guide that I have.

230 grn FMJ

Hornady 7th Edition 6.4 grns
45 ACP Handbook 6.0 grns
Hodgedon 5.6 grns

Normally I trust the Hornady load data but in this case the start load from Hornady is almost the manufacturers max load. Maybe I am missing something with the Hornady abbreviations; is "Clays Univ" Hodgedon Universal Clays or not?

 

[Canuck-IL]

Check the OAL for each source ... in the 5th Ed. Hornady's the listing is for 1.230 - uncommonly short for 230FMJ.
/Bryan

 

[dave from mesa]

deleted

 

[ants]

He did ask for Walkalong or rc model.
I'll step back and let those two gentlemen take care of him.

 

[243winxb]

is "Clays Univ" Hodgedon Universal Clays

Yes. Starting load is 5.1gr. The maximum load is 5.6gr when loading a 230gr fmj. Start low and work up.

 

[243winxb]

it can get confusing, Alliant has a "clays dot", and Hodgdon has 3 powders with the word "clays" attached http://www.hodgdon.com/shotpist.html

 

[RDA 226sig]

Thanks 243, I have the Hodgedon data but don't understand the difference between the Hodgedon data and the Hornady data. I can certainly use the lower value of 5.6 grns and see what happens but I prefer the bullets to exit the barrel without a brass rod behind them.

 

[243winxb]

you better wait for the experts then

 

[rcmodel]

As already noted by 243winxb, there are Clays, and then there are Clays.

Hodgdon makes Clays, International Clays, and what used to be named Universal Clays. You see it now mostly listed as Universal in load data.

However, Hornady #6 shows 6.4 max with Universal Clays.

Hodgdon 2009 book shows 6.4 Max with Universal Clays.
And 4.5 Max with Clays.

So, I would consider 6.4 the max load with Univ Clays & a 230 jacketed bullet.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

Speer #13 shows 6.3 Grs of Universal Clays, or just "Universal" as max with standard 230 Gr jacketed bullets, so they are pretty much inline with Hodgdon and Hornady.

I would concur with rcmodel here.

I always thought it was a bad idea for Hodgdon to have 3 different "Clays". Many sources just much refers to Universal Clays as Universal, or as in Speers case "H. Universal" to help limit possible confusion.

Speer #13 only goes to 6.0 as max with their 230 Gr Gold Dot. They list separate data for it while they do not for their 200 Gr Gold Dot. They know best about their bullets of course.

 

[RDA 226sig]

Definitely Universal Clays

The powder I have is definitely "Universal Clays". Possibly the online data is out dated or intentionally conservative. Thank you for the response.

 

[Walkalong]

My older printed version of Hodgdons online data only shows one charge (6.0) with Universal, not a min and a max. They have obviously updated things in their 2009 book.

 

[243winxb]

The simple fact is you start low and work up. You find your own maximum, not what some book said. Anyone would be a fool to start at any listed maximum. The difference in components, temp. primer all have a factor. You could end up with a max of 7.0gr. but you must work up to it.

 

[748]

That is good to know.
I try to stay away from powders that could be confused with another load.

 

[Walkalong]

The simple fact is you start low and work up.

Yep....

 

[AR]

Well, I'll chime in since my main load is Universal Clays with a 230gr FMJ. Hornady lists 6.4 as the max, but I run all my loads with 5.8gr. There was a very, very noticeable difference between 6.0 and 5.8 as far as felt recoil.

There are MANY different types of Clay's powder. Clay's Univ or Universal is what you're looking for - the rest are different size granules which have different shapes, which means different burn rates, which is why the load data is different. Lee/Lyman do not even list Universal Clays IIRC, so I use Hogdon's & Hornady.

In my Kimber Custom Carry II, 5.8 is great. A good friend can run 6.4gr in his baby XD. His brother in law, however, did not fair so well with 6.0gr in a Springfield 1911 - the tab that connects to the recoil spring broke...

 

[rangerphil]

Let me take a shot at this discussion as I have also noted the diffference in reloading data when using Universal Clays in a 230 gr FMJ load. If you will notice, the Hodgdon data shows a Hornady 230 gr FMJ Flat Point as the reference bullet. It seems to me that effectively cutting off the tip of a FMJ bullet to make a flat point means that the material removed has to go somewhere elso to maintain the same overall weight. Assuming that two bullets have the same exact shape, the bullet that has a flat point must have a slightly longer bearing surface in order to get the same weight. This would explain the relatively lower powder charges recommended by Hornady. Am I crazy, or does this make sense??