XDKingslayer
member
As opposed to the factory ammo that isn't created to maim and kill?
I'm tired of hearing about this liability crap. When did the switch to "I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 9." happen?
.45 acp. defensive load...
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As opposed to the factory ammo that isn't created to maim and kill?
I'm tired of hearing about this liability crap. When did the switch to "I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 9." happen?
loop
Member
It's a .45. It pokes a big hole. If it is reliable and accurate, shoot it, for fun or for self defense.
I've got a few full of lead bullets, a few full of hardball and a couple with hollow points. They are all loaded for reliability and accuracy.
Aside from all the comments about HPs, expansion is unreliable at .45 velocity. Depend on shot placement. IOW, pratice, practice, practice.
I've got a few full of lead bullets, a few full of hardball and a couple with hollow points. They are all loaded for reliability and accuracy.
Aside from all the comments about HPs, expansion is unreliable at .45 velocity. Depend on shot placement. IOW, pratice, practice, practice.
One of the benefits of the latest and superior bullet technology is that expansion seems to start immediately and be reliable through heavy clothing. Penetration is good, and the bullet profile enhances feed reliability.
HST, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, and DPX seem to fall into that category.
Some choose ammo for economical reasons. Generic Win. JHP's feed well and represent a good load. Good ammo to stock pile.
I don't believe that unreliable expansion is a problem anymore, except with older technology that some think "works ok".
Todays best ammo is made to expand at lower velocities associated with shorter barreled ccw pistols, and feed reliably.
There's a reason that bullet technology evolves, like anything else-- to eliminate problems associated with current or past technology. It's been that way forever. In .45, I carry DPX or HST, with HST for spare mags.
Wouldn't feel too handicapped with Winchester WB JHP, but don't choose my SD ammo based on ecomomics. I base it on dynamics.
No argument that shot placement, practice, tactics, etc., are most important. After that comes the best bullet you can count on using the best techology to save your life--well mine, anyway.
HST, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, and DPX seem to fall into that category.
Some choose ammo for economical reasons. Generic Win. JHP's feed well and represent a good load. Good ammo to stock pile.
I don't believe that unreliable expansion is a problem anymore, except with older technology that some think "works ok".
Todays best ammo is made to expand at lower velocities associated with shorter barreled ccw pistols, and feed reliably.
There's a reason that bullet technology evolves, like anything else-- to eliminate problems associated with current or past technology. It's been that way forever. In .45, I carry DPX or HST, with HST for spare mags.
Wouldn't feel too handicapped with Winchester WB JHP, but don't choose my SD ammo based on ecomomics. I base it on dynamics.
No argument that shot placement, practice, tactics, etc., are most important. After that comes the best bullet you can count on using the best techology to save your life--well mine, anyway.
GroovedG19
Member
Corbon DPX, Corbon Powerball, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T, Remington Golden Saber, PMC(Eldorado)Starfire and Speer Gold Dot.
Alright, here's my take...pretty much any trype of .45 ACP round is going to drop an intruder (if your aim is on and you hit him/her - trying not to be sexest). I have posted that I perfer Hornady, 45 ACP+P 230 GR TAP - FPD (I beleive, but anything will do) for defense. A .45 ACP is a damn powerful round, especially at the distance you would more than likely be shooting at an intruder.
My 2 cents! Have a Shibby day!
My 2 cents! Have a Shibby day!
odysseus
Member
I will go out on the limb here and say that 99% of people posting here have never actually shot someone with their .45. This includes myself, and I hope it stays that way. So the minute differences in expansion and velocity between certain defense rounds might just be a lot of techie talk.
So I agree that what is more important than anything for a defensive load is one that you know feeds 100% well and is reliable for your particular firearm as you have tested countless times at the range, and your shot placement. What do you shoot best with that your particular gun feeds without fail? That is the key above all else.
So I agree that what is more important than anything for a defensive load is one that you know feeds 100% well and is reliable for your particular firearm as you have tested countless times at the range, and your shot placement. What do you shoot best with that your particular gun feeds without fail? That is the key above all else.
There was a good article in a gun mag last month or so that said for legal issues, post self defence shooting, its wise to use what your local PD shoots for legal issues. Our department uses winchester ranger in 40 and 45. So thats what I use. Granted it depends on the department and what your comfortable with. On the flip side i also look at the 45 this way. Its been and effective round well for close to 100 years well before major advances in JHP design that are out today. Its been my observation that all major manufacturers JHP's are effective however, some may feed better than others in your gun.
lance22
Member
It's not all myth.
As a gross generalization let me put 'bullets' into three boxes:
(1) Ball / FMJ
(2) Normal hp / defensive
(3) Frangible (made to bust apart fast - glazer, mag safe et all)
(1) Ball/FMJ is good because it will give you a little more of a chance if you have to shoot through glass, clip a corner in your house, or penetrate heavy clothing. This is also your most easy-to-feed ammo.
(2) Normal hp / defensive - hydrashok gold dot golden sabre will expand and (usually) leave a trail of thin copper fragments in it's wake. It's less likely to overpenetrate but at the same time not as good on heavy clothing or clipping corners. Your gun might like one brand more than another due to shape.
(3) Frangible - I guess this stuff is ok if the perp is shirtless but you are totally screwed if you have to shoot through glass or anything else. If the perp is a really big guy there's also the chance that the little frags won't make it far enough to stop the attack.
Each type performs a little differently and each one may be better or worse depending on the scenario you are preparing for.
As a gross generalization let me put 'bullets' into three boxes:
(1) Ball / FMJ
(2) Normal hp / defensive
(3) Frangible (made to bust apart fast - glazer, mag safe et all)
(1) Ball/FMJ is good because it will give you a little more of a chance if you have to shoot through glass, clip a corner in your house, or penetrate heavy clothing. This is also your most easy-to-feed ammo.
(2) Normal hp / defensive - hydrashok gold dot golden sabre will expand and (usually) leave a trail of thin copper fragments in it's wake. It's less likely to overpenetrate but at the same time not as good on heavy clothing or clipping corners. Your gun might like one brand more than another due to shape.
(3) Frangible - I guess this stuff is ok if the perp is shirtless but you are totally screwed if you have to shoot through glass or anything else. If the perp is a really big guy there's also the chance that the little frags won't make it far enough to stop the attack.
Each type performs a little differently and each one may be better or worse depending on the scenario you are preparing for.
Snapping Twig
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I'd offer a fourth category Lance - hard cast.
What works on game SHOULD translate into SD IMO.
A 230g cast TC with a large metplat might just be what the doctor ordered. A big flat metplat will transfer shock and disrupt tissue while the monolithic solid that is a cast bullet penetrates.
Like I said previously, I'm thinking of switching over to a 230g cast TC which is what I make and shoot typically.
Further, I have never and I hope will never, shoot anyone. I did once back down a couple BG's with a P 220 .45acp loaded with 200g cast SWC and I never for one moment doubted the ability of the rounds at the time - seems the BG's didn't either.
What works on game SHOULD translate into SD IMO.
A 230g cast TC with a large metplat might just be what the doctor ordered. A big flat metplat will transfer shock and disrupt tissue while the monolithic solid that is a cast bullet penetrates.
Like I said previously, I'm thinking of switching over to a 230g cast TC which is what I make and shoot typically.
Further, I have never and I hope will never, shoot anyone. I did once back down a couple BG's with a P 220 .45acp loaded with 200g cast SWC and I never for one moment doubted the ability of the rounds at the time - seems the BG's didn't either.
jjohnson
Member
Quality Factory JHPs.
Well, right now I'm carrying the Winchester Silvertips.
Next time I buy self defense ammo, I will re-visit the choice - but will go with at least "major brand" JHP and may up the ante with the premium performance stuff (like CorBon).
Their factory (whether it's Winchester, Hornady, CorBon) ALL manufacture ammo that's more reliable than mine and I won't have to explain how evil I am that I loaded up my own brew.
I may try the Aguila 135 gr IQ stuff.....
Well, right now I'm carrying the Winchester Silvertips.
Next time I buy self defense ammo, I will re-visit the choice - but will go with at least "major brand" JHP and may up the ante with the premium performance stuff (like CorBon).
Their factory (whether it's Winchester, Hornady, CorBon) ALL manufacture ammo that's more reliable than mine and I won't have to explain how evil I am that I loaded up my own brew.
I may try the Aguila 135 gr IQ stuff.....
i talked to a local cop who said in all their testing, Speer Gold Dot had the best expansion and penetration. Its what they carry on duty so i guess its good enough for me. I have a box and a half of Black Talon if things get real bad.
I don't think there's a pistol round commonly carried for SD that you could describe that way.
Pistol bullets are famous for performing perfectly without impressing Bubba in the slightest (at least immediately), even though he's been fatally shot.
The truth is, some will always choose their ammo based on achieving a balance between performance and cost.
I choose the best ammo available and I don't care about the cost. Like anybody else, I test it to make sure it works, then I carry it. Not like I shoot it for practice.
But it gets a little old listening to people trying to elevate their money saving ammo to "just as good" , while trying to convince themselves that they've chosen wisely the ammo that might have to save their lives.
I'm not a believer in the theory that a hit COM with a any bullet is as good as with a technologically superior one.
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Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Member
Another +1 on Federal 230 HST. Can't find the link now but it penetrated more than 12" (and less than 18") consistently, retained 100% of weight, and consistently expanded to > 0.86 caliber. Basically everything I look for in a SD round (deep penetration, no over penetration, and large, rapid, consistent expansion).
Of course you MUST run couple hundred rounds (I like to shoot 500 rounds) through an autoloader to ensure compatibility. So what ever ammo you pick don't change every week. Buy a couple boxes. If it works buy couple hundred rounds. Run it through and then stick with it. I buy new SD ammo once/twice a year and shoot of my current load.
Likely in your (or my) lifetime we will fire a pistol defensively once (or never). You want it to go bang 100% of the time. To save $10 and use non premium ammo for self defense to me is just stupid. It would be like ripping airbags out of a car because with the weight gone you would save $2 a year in gas.
Of course you MUST run couple hundred rounds (I like to shoot 500 rounds) through an autoloader to ensure compatibility. So what ever ammo you pick don't change every week. Buy a couple boxes. If it works buy couple hundred rounds. Run it through and then stick with it. I buy new SD ammo once/twice a year and shoot of my current load.
Likely in your (or my) lifetime we will fire a pistol defensively once (or never). You want it to go bang 100% of the time. To save $10 and use non premium ammo for self defense to me is just stupid. It would be like ripping airbags out of a car because with the weight gone you would save $2 a year in gas.
arjppj said:
Please tell me you're kidding.
First of all, Black Talon is nothing more than an older iteration of Winchester SXT. It doesn't have any magical powers, and quite frankly it's outdated compared to the modern SXT. Second of all, at the prices Black Talon is bringing from collectors, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you have done little or no testing of the Black Talons in your gun. What exactly is it that you think the Black Talon will do that the the Gold Dots won't?
MICHAEL T
Member
Remember a miss with a 45acp in Tampa Fl. and sailing out over the gulf. caused the storm that destroyed N.O. La. Use any round but be sure not to miss.
Steve H
Member
I really like the Barnes XPB (reloads) That bullet is used in the Corbon DP something or other if you want the factory version.
Steve H
Member
TonyB
Member
thaks for all the replies...now I'm really confused.....
luckily if you hit a guy in the pinky w/ a .45 his head will explode, and all his friends and family will die of spontaineous human combustion.....
I think I'll go w/ gold dots...I use them in my carry in 38+p...I will however test them for feedablity...
luckily if you hit a guy in the pinky w/ a .45 his head will explode, and all his friends and family will die of spontaineous human combustion.....
I think I'll go w/ gold dots...I use them in my carry in 38+p...I will however test them for feedablity...
When it comes to the .45 I feel pretty comfortable with anything loaded in it.
Currently mine is loaded with Gold Dot 230 JHP. Prior to that it was the old federal hydrashok. When I'm in bear country I carry Hornaday 230 JHP +P.
I would feel just as comfortable with FMJ or a hard cast bullet in .45 though.
Currently mine is loaded with Gold Dot 230 JHP. Prior to that it was the old federal hydrashok. When I'm in bear country I carry Hornaday 230 JHP +P.
I would feel just as comfortable with FMJ or a hard cast bullet in .45 though.
Hornady Tap 200grn +P here, currently, but I'm still trying to find what my new USP eats best...
Then again, I plan on the USP being used primarily at the range, secondarily on feral hogs and up close varmints, and lastly for home defense if I ever need a back up to the 12 ga.
Then again, I plan on the USP being used primarily at the range, secondarily on feral hogs and up close varmints, and lastly for home defense if I ever need a back up to the 12 ga.
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