.45 Caliber barrel in T/C Renegade for Deer Hunting

[genetics_jo]

Hey Y'all,
I was pondering the thought of purchasing a Green mountain replacement barrel for my T/C Renegade .54 caliber to hunt deer with (I would keep my .54 for Elk and other large game). My thoughts were (probably incorrect) that a .45 caliber saboted bullet (180-200 gr) with higher charge of BP (or 777) shot from a 1:28 turn barrel would travel farther and have a higher knockdown at distances greater than 100 yards than my .54 barrel would. The .54 barrel is a traditional PRB barrel with 1:66 turns that does best with PRB's.

Anyone else done something like this before? It seems fairly seamless to take out the old barrel and drop in the new one (at least according to Green Mountain). I could even see bringing both barrels to the hunt and use whichever depending upon where the deer are. If forest and close in shots, just use the .54 caliber; if grassland bordered by woods...then the .45 for longer shots.

The other thing is this...all online articles discussing using a .45 caliber with saboted bullets talk about use of an inline smokepole (with 209 primers) rather than my side hammer percussion cap traditional smokepole. With my traditional smokepole, I can't see using the 150 grain charges they talk about. Thus, can I expect to get decent trajectories using the .45 caliber/saboted bullets combination in my gun (probably could load it with 120 grains FFg of 777 and get away with it not blowing up in my face).

 

[Omnivore]

There's no law of physics that says you can't get really good results with a sidelock.

The heavier .45 bullets will have a better SD and BC than the .54 RB, so yes, retained energy at longer distances will be measurably better. With a 28" twist you can certainly stabilize bullets weighing more than 200 grains.

In a very general sense, a smaller diameter bullet can be pushed to about the same velocity as a larger bullet of the same weight. (Not completely sure whether you mean a .50 bore with .45 projectile in a sabot, or a .45 bore with some smaller projectile in a sabot)

I'd be inclined to discuss safe loads with Green Mountain. Tell them exactly what you have in mind. I'm sure they'll have something to say.

Also, be sure of your state's hunting regs. The projectile in a .45 sabot is going to be what, .40 or smaller? Some states have a minimum caliber that may be greater than that. My state has outlawed sabots altogether for use in muzzleloader seasons. Otherwise, the concept is a sound one to my way of thinking. Let us know what Green Mountain says about it.

 

[arcticap]

I agree that the .45 fast twist barrel is probably not the best choice, even if you're only using it for very small deer or antelope. The .45 doesn't allow for many bullet options. You're better off looking at a fast twist .50 or .54 barrel.
Also, I'm not sure just how deep the rifling on GM fast twist barrels is. If the rifling is too deep, then they're better used for shooting lead conicals instead of sabots.
Sabots offer some unique advantages for accurate long range shooting. The larger caliber barrels can utilize .44, .45, .50 bullet/sabot combinations depending on the bore size, plus bore size conicals.
The .45 bores are probably the least popular because of the smaller [.357 & maybe .40?] bullets, and the twist is listed as 1 in 30 and not 1 in 28 in .45.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=HawkenRenegadeStyleRifles

Even the smaller TC Maxi lead conical that weighs 255 grains is best shot out of a .50 barrel with a sabot rather than naked out of a .45 barrel [at long range].
Plus, if you really want to shoot game at longer ranges, you probably want to use a scope to be able to hit a lethal shot. In that case you just might be better off with a dedicated sabot shooting rifle. They are very economical, unless you're willing to mount a scope on a GM barrel. A long shot is still only a single shot, and you don't want to increase the odds against making a good hit even higher by using open sights if you don't need to.
That's just my 2 cents...

 

[Voodoochile]

I may get slapped around with this statement but, I grew up knowing that a .45 caliber in a muzzleloader was a minimum round for hunting Deer & larger game farther out than 50 yards.

Now in that statement I mean with PRB & light 240gr. & less weighted bullets because of it's less than substantial energy retention from this weapon.

From my understanding that a .50 caliber is the best suited all round caliber because of the better saboted .44 & .45 caliber pistol bullets weighing over 230gr. & conicals that can weigh as much as 600gr. & there is also the PRB that weighs in at around 180gr. but on average is pushed at around 1800+ FPS which makes 1293 Ft. Lbs. & is adequate out to 75 or so yards in the right hands with even 1:48 twist rifling & even the heavier bullets makes a great longer range round is only as good as the shooter can achieve out past 200 yards.

With a muzzleloader what range would you wish to take deer at that a .50 or a .54 can not handle?

 

[genetics_jo]

Plus, if you really want to shoot game at longer ranges, you probably want to use a scope to be able to hit a lethal shot. In that case you just might be better off with a dedicated sabot shooting rifle. They are very economical,

After searching the web on different in-lines I have to agree with you Articap. For about the same price as a new drop-in GM barrel one can pick up a decent CVA dedicated sabot shooter that's designed for higher black powder loads with scope mounts. Where I live, you can shoot any old smokepole during the regular deer season--including in-lines. However, during muzzleloading season you can only use "open-ignition", non-scoped, percussion or flint-lock guns.

I suppose this begs the question...why not just get a centerfire rifle for regular season? Guess I'm just too hooked on the smell of BP

 

[hamourkiller]

The fast twist with a lead bullet will be able to duplicate 45-70 to 45-120 performance. Any thing walks the continet has been killed with this combination.
The ability to change out bbls is one of the good things about T/C and GM bbls.
You can go from .45 all the way to .62 smooth.

 

[ArmedBear]

The only question I'd have is, what size bullet will the 1:28" rifling stablize?

Other than that, the old rule about caliber on deer is silly. It probably applies to the old standard T/C 1:48" rifling, because you can't go above a certain bullet weight and keep the bullet stable.

However, I've dropped a buffalo at about 80 yards with a single shot from a BP .45-70. The 525-grain bullet went right through and kept going. The idea that a similar load, or even a much lighter bullet, wouldn't drop a deer past 50 yards is utterly laughable, especially when .44 Magnum revolvers do.

Bullet weight matters.

I'm not sure what 1:28" will stabilize in .45 caliber. That's what you need to find out. The old Sharps rifles have rifling around 1:18", Marlin .45-70s come with 1:20".

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70_Government for some info about the original .45-70 Government cartridges.

I'm sure it will stabilize a 320 grain Maxi-Hunter, and probably something a good deal bigger. But let's say you have a 320 grain Maxi Hunter. You should be able to get that thing coming out of the muzzle at 1400 fps, no problem. Will that drop a deer well past 50 yards? I think it will.