tincat2
Member
Any problems with firing .45 colt(long colt) in a .454 casull Super Redhawk?
.45 colt in a .454 casull?
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LeonCarr
Member
Shooting .45 Colt in a .454 Casull is like firing .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum, in that you have carbon and lead (if shooting lead bullets) buildup just behind the chamber throats in the cylinder, due to the shorter case length of the .45 Colt compared to the .454 Casull.
Shooting standard pressure .45 Colt in a Ruger SRH .454 is like dry firing, but louder
. Virtually no felt recoil and virtually no muzzle rise.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Shooting standard pressure .45 Colt in a Ruger SRH .454 is like dry firing, but louder
. Virtually no felt recoil and virtually no muzzle rise.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Vern Humphrey
Member
Which is no big deal -- just clean after every shooting session.
sw460mag
Member
i ran out of 460mag in my S&W 460 so i shot up all the 45 colt i had ,the first few shots i though something was wrong with the ammo but it was just like a 22 mag.i have not found any 454 down here yet so i cant say how it does....
JNewell
Member
The potential difference is that if you _don't_ clean thoroughly after shooting .45 Colt in a .454 Casull revolver - at least a Freedom Arms revolver, which is chambered very tightly - you may send a round loaded to ~60,000 psi through the roof with possible damage to gun and/or shooter. Ruger and Taurus .454C revolvers are presumably less subject to this, but we have had threads not too long ago where a .44 Magnum was blown after shooting .44 Russian loads without cleaning.
Vern Humphrey
Member
It is indeed possible to raise pressures this way, but it's more likely that the longer round will refuse to chamber when the chamber is that fouled.
Nevertheless, clean after each shooting. Clean agan before going back to the longer case.
Nevertheless, clean after each shooting. Clean agan before going back to the longer case.
Action_Can_Do
Member
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I've heard that shooting 45 colt through 454s will result in terrible accuracy due to the rifling. Does anyone know if that's true?
BoomBoom25
Member
No Its Not True
The diamater of the 454 casull round is slightly smaller than the 45 colt round. Which of course makes for a better bullet/bore seal and thus actually making the 45 colt round more accurate than the 454 casull.
The diamater of the 454 casull round is slightly smaller than the 45 colt round. Which of course makes for a better bullet/bore seal and thus actually making the 45 colt round more accurate than the 454 casull.
Stainz
Member
My 625MG in .45 Colt measures just over .480" ID in it's chambers. My leftover Hornady .454 Casull ammo measures .477" OD, as does my GA Arms .45 Colt ammo - and my homebrews, made using Lee carbide dies - which I also used to reload my .454's with. The simple truth re the .480" maximum OD of the .45 Colt is based on it's initial propellant - black powder. Being very dirty, some allowance for same was included.
I shot thousands of .45 Colts through my 7.5" SRH with no problems, save the embarassment of being bested, grouping wise, initially by my 4" .45 Colt 625MG, and later by my 5.5" RH. No, standard SAAMI spec-ed .45 Colt loads - especially cowboy-lite - will not normally obturate the case to seal off the chambers (Witness the smoke trail usually on the top of the fired case.). Combine that with the low velocity of the .45 Colts (700-850 fps) - and the 'slow' rifling in the .454's barrel (Designed for 1,600-2,000 fps), and one can uderstand the poor performance of .45 Colts in my 7.5" SRH. While I could get 1.5" 5-shot groups (I allowed a 'flier'...) - with it scoped from sandbags - at 50yd, it wouldn't do better than 4" at 25 yd and 6" at 50 yd, under similar conditions with .45 Colt.
My .45 Colt-ish loads in .454 cases did better - and had lower SD in muzzle velocity, too. I believe this is more a function of the case filling the chamber length to the case mouth step, something that usually doesn't occur in some .45 Colt chambers. I have lost the data taken, but I remember <3" at 25yd and <5" at 50yd, and mv in the 920-950 fps range, using my usual 250gr LRNFP's and 255gr LSWC's. Again, I think the 'slow' rifling didn't help.
One can't over-emphasize that you MUST shoot .454's first, then .45 Colts during a shooting session. Always meticulously clean the chambers before going back to .454's. I knew this - but still destroyed a favorite plinker, my 629MG, last February. After shooting hundreds of .44 Russians and Specials, I wanted to ping a 100yd plate one more time. I loaded - with some effort - my sole remaining ammo - 300gr LSWC over 6.2gr Titegroup in a .44 Magnum case (~880 fps). I had shot many of these heavy plinkers before. I hit the plate with the fourth shot - and destroyed the revolver with the fifth. The bullet couldn't exit it's case due to the lead and carbon buildup at the step - the crimp couldn't release. The resultant pressure spike burst the case, cylinder, and topstrap. A 'double charge' was ruled out, due to the small volume with that long bullet loaded. S&W returned the serviceable part - the barrel - and agreed with me and Hodgdon's re the way in which it was destroyed. It was all my fault. Believe me, crud in your chambers from fired short-cased rounds can be dangerous. Fortunately, I only had to mop up my tears, get another pair of safety glasses (Chipped lens!), and change my britches.
A great way of cleaning excessive carbon/lead from your SRH's chambers is with a wool mop and metal polish (Flitz/Semichrome) powered by a slow drill motor. This will help with softer-cased .454's, too - like the early Hornady's and MagTech's. Fun revolver - I actually miss mine - although my carpal tunnel problems don't!
Stainz
I shot thousands of .45 Colts through my 7.5" SRH with no problems, save the embarassment of being bested, grouping wise, initially by my 4" .45 Colt 625MG, and later by my 5.5" RH. No, standard SAAMI spec-ed .45 Colt loads - especially cowboy-lite - will not normally obturate the case to seal off the chambers (Witness the smoke trail usually on the top of the fired case.). Combine that with the low velocity of the .45 Colts (700-850 fps) - and the 'slow' rifling in the .454's barrel (Designed for 1,600-2,000 fps), and one can uderstand the poor performance of .45 Colts in my 7.5" SRH. While I could get 1.5" 5-shot groups (I allowed a 'flier'...) - with it scoped from sandbags - at 50yd, it wouldn't do better than 4" at 25 yd and 6" at 50 yd, under similar conditions with .45 Colt.
My .45 Colt-ish loads in .454 cases did better - and had lower SD in muzzle velocity, too. I believe this is more a function of the case filling the chamber length to the case mouth step, something that usually doesn't occur in some .45 Colt chambers. I have lost the data taken, but I remember <3" at 25yd and <5" at 50yd, and mv in the 920-950 fps range, using my usual 250gr LRNFP's and 255gr LSWC's. Again, I think the 'slow' rifling didn't help.
One can't over-emphasize that you MUST shoot .454's first, then .45 Colts during a shooting session. Always meticulously clean the chambers before going back to .454's. I knew this - but still destroyed a favorite plinker, my 629MG, last February. After shooting hundreds of .44 Russians and Specials, I wanted to ping a 100yd plate one more time. I loaded - with some effort - my sole remaining ammo - 300gr LSWC over 6.2gr Titegroup in a .44 Magnum case (~880 fps). I had shot many of these heavy plinkers before. I hit the plate with the fourth shot - and destroyed the revolver with the fifth. The bullet couldn't exit it's case due to the lead and carbon buildup at the step - the crimp couldn't release. The resultant pressure spike burst the case, cylinder, and topstrap. A 'double charge' was ruled out, due to the small volume with that long bullet loaded. S&W returned the serviceable part - the barrel - and agreed with me and Hodgdon's re the way in which it was destroyed. It was all my fault. Believe me, crud in your chambers from fired short-cased rounds can be dangerous. Fortunately, I only had to mop up my tears, get another pair of safety glasses (Chipped lens!), and change my britches.
A great way of cleaning excessive carbon/lead from your SRH's chambers is with a wool mop and metal polish (Flitz/Semichrome) powered by a slow drill motor. This will help with softer-cased .454's, too - like the early Hornady's and MagTech's. Fun revolver - I actually miss mine - although my carpal tunnel problems don't!
Stainz
unspellable
Member
45 Colt in the 454 Casull
A couple of points I have not seen mentioned here. The SAAMI specs for the 45 Colt chamber call for fairly large and loose nominal dimensions, a hang over from the days of black powder when you had to leave some room for the crud.
While all the nominal diameters for the 45 Colt and the 454 Casull are identical, the SAAMI specs for the 454 cartridge have tighter tolerances. The SAAMI specs for the 454 chamber call for a tighter nominal size and tighter tolerances. What this boils down to is that there will be the occasional 45 Colt cartridge that will not go into a 454 Casull chamber. I have run into this, particualry with cast bullet hand loads. It's the reason they tell you to use 454 dies for your 454 and not 45 Colt dies in the manner you might use 44 Special dies for 44 Magnum.
The loose 45 Colt chamber allows the brass to expand too much so resizing it works it excessively leading to shorter case life and the 45 Colt's reputation for weak brass. It really has nothing to do with the brass at all, it's the oversized chamber. The tight chamber is one of the 454's secrets to success.
I picked up a Taurus raging Bull in 45 Colt (Yes, Virginia, it's a 45 Colt, not a 454 Casull, and it has six holes.) in part because I thought they might use the same 454 reamer on it and I'd have tight chambers. No such luck, it has the standard 45 Colt loose chambers.
A couple of points I have not seen mentioned here. The SAAMI specs for the 45 Colt chamber call for fairly large and loose nominal dimensions, a hang over from the days of black powder when you had to leave some room for the crud.
While all the nominal diameters for the 45 Colt and the 454 Casull are identical, the SAAMI specs for the 454 cartridge have tighter tolerances. The SAAMI specs for the 454 chamber call for a tighter nominal size and tighter tolerances. What this boils down to is that there will be the occasional 45 Colt cartridge that will not go into a 454 Casull chamber. I have run into this, particualry with cast bullet hand loads. It's the reason they tell you to use 454 dies for your 454 and not 45 Colt dies in the manner you might use 44 Special dies for 44 Magnum.
The loose 45 Colt chamber allows the brass to expand too much so resizing it works it excessively leading to shorter case life and the 45 Colt's reputation for weak brass. It really has nothing to do with the brass at all, it's the oversized chamber. The tight chamber is one of the 454's secrets to success.
I picked up a Taurus raging Bull in 45 Colt (Yes, Virginia, it's a 45 Colt, not a 454 Casull, and it has six holes.) in part because I thought they might use the same 454 reamer on it and I'd have tight chambers. No such luck, it has the standard 45 Colt loose chambers.
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