.45 colt stopping power

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SamlautRanger

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Ok, looking at getting a S&W .45 long colt mountain gun. So how does the stopping power on 4 legged creatures such as bears compare to the .44 magnum. Can you buy (i am not into handloading) high power rounds and low powered rounds for the .45LC ?? How is the accuracy in the 4" barrel mountain gun, anyone have any experiences? Thanks.
 
I'm no expert on the matter, but from what I read, you would want to limit anti-bear use to the "magnum" 45 Colt loads. I mean the hot stuff recommended only for over-built Rugers or Freedom Arms revolvers. I don't know if the new S&Ws are built for those loads. Go ahead and call them.
 
Buffalo Bore makes some rather nasty standard pressure .45 LC ammo. Rather nasty price, too. http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45

With that kinda stuff, I think that frame battering would be harder on the gun than the pressure. And I wouldn't want to use either on bear.

Other than that, the standard loads seem to be 225 gr LSWC at 900-960 fps, or 255 gr LRN at 860.

Compared to 240 gr at 1180 standard for the .44 magnum, or 300 gr at 1300 Buffalo Bore, there's really no contest between .44 mag and standard .45 LC.
 
good

To answer your question, you CAN buy High Powered rounds, and you CAN buy low powered rounds loaded for the .45 Colt. Try to find a medium powered round though...

To clarify:

There are a fairly decent number of low powered(Cowboy) loads for the .45 Colt. Most of these are 250gr soft lead bullets at about 800 FPS. Nothing I would volunteer to step in front of, but not my first choice for defence against 2 or 4-legged creatures.

High Power Loads...the two most popular options for non-handloaders seem to be either Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore. Here is where problems arise: Most(not all) of your Monster .45 Colt loads are listed 'For Ruger or Freedoms Arms Only'. In fact, if you go to www.Buffalabore.com, you will see they split their .45 Colt loads into Standard Pressure Heavy .45 Colt(Safe for All Modern Guns), and Heavy .45 Colt +P.

For a factory loaded, Safe for all guns .45 Colt load, about the best you can probably do is a 250-260gr bullet at about 1100 FPS(560ish Foot-lbs). This is probably more than enough for defence, since it matches/exceeds most Max loaded 180gr Hard Cast .357 loads, which most folks feel is marginal bear protection. It would be better than a sharp stick anyway.

In contrast, the moster loads move a 300gr hard Cast at 1325fps(1150 Foot-lbs). Serious bear medicine.

Now, trying to find a deer load that doesn't hurt to shoot...that's the challenge I'm facing.

greg
 
Cor Bon did or does make a 45LC load with a 200gr speer "flying ashtray" bullet traveling at I think 1000 or 1100 fps. Probably a little better than the 225gr Win STHP or the Federal 225 LSWCHP.
 
.45LC loads vary widely. Even available from CCI/Blazer in a 200grain JHP with a BIIIG HP. Energy for this load is 360 ft/lbs at the muzzle, at 900 fps. It's very easy to shoot, and as cheap as most Cowboy loads. I sometimes carry this ammo in a Vaquero.

Remington makes a semi-wadcutter 225 grain, 960 fps, 460 ft/lbs.

Georgia Arms, Inc makes several loads, most large manufacturers do as well.

For me, the .45 LC is very much more pleasant to shoot than a .44 mag, and an accurate and interesting cartridge. I think it will gradually become a little more easily available - it's tough to find in my area - as time goes by.
 
I like to feed my 625 Mountain Gun Speer 250gr Gold Dot HPs. This load seems to me to be more than adequate for most 2 or 4 legged predators, except bears. If bears are my problem, I want an 870 stuffed with slugs or a .375 H&H Magnum.
 
Guess I'll have to offer the minority opinion. I have a Smith 25-13 and use it for lots of things including woods protection. I live in a part of Montana where that means -ack- bear protection. I have settled on a load that launches a 255 grain Lee SWC to 1190fps. I get sub-two-inch groups all day long at 25 yards. In finding this load, I experimented with 325 grainers as well but could not get them to shoot well. In all, I have about 750 rounds downrange and all of them were warmish- think bottom end Ruger loads. So far my Smith has zero measurable endshake and just a bit of the rotational play that is common on all used Smiths.

The Rugers are nifty but their double-action 45s pack about as well as a Volkswagen and in general, single-actions leave me cold in defensive scenarios.

Also remember that the extra-velocity Colt loads buy you trajectory and useable range. But Linebaugh, Keith, Taffin, Seyfried and others concede that large diameter, heavy-for caliber bullets don't need to go fast to work. Their history of penetration is well known.

You don't handload but I think both CorBon and Buffalo Bore market warmish Colt loads. Does it compare to a good .44? No, not really. But in my opinion the grand old 45 Colt is good enough and a whole lot milder to shoot.
 
45 MAG's or 45 colt's are not effective against bears. I would never trust them against bears.

For bear's, I would feel safe with either:

1. A 12 Gauge Shotgun loaded with slugs.

2. A 45-70 RIFLE.
 
My quest for a PD .45 Colt round was temporarily met by the CCI Blazer 200gr GDJHP, which makes 1000fps+ from normal SA's. Next came the same-priced, and easier to find, Georgia Arms 200gr GDJHP (same bullet) in new Starline brass - spec'd at 1100 fps. I chrono-ed it from several of my firearms and found the following average muzzle velocities and SD's:

4" 625 MG 1123 +/- 8 fps
5.5" RH 1210 +/- 20 fps
24" Puma M1892 1424 +/- 6 fps

The round is comfortable and accurate in the Mountain Gun with the various wood stocks I have tried, Ahrends being my favorite. It is mild in the Redhawk with the stock stocks. The accuracy at 110yd from my Marbles tang site equipped SS Puma is astounding as well, although even my usual 250gr LRNFP over 6.1gr Titegroup is great in that Puma. That load makes 850 +/- 16 fps from my 4" 625MG and 886 +/- 14 fps from my 5.5" RH. As has been stated, I wouldn't want to 'stop' one of those under any conditions, even though they are 'mild' by the old blackpowder .45 Colt loads, where such a bullet would break 1,000 fps from a 7.5" barrel.

That Blazer or GA Arms round should be good on light skinned game as well.

Stainz
 
:) Never had to use mine on a bear but I do have the S&W Mountain Gun and can address this issue. Mine is extremely accurate and carries well with the lighter weight barrel. They made this exact same gun in .44 mag. so I don't see you having issues using hot .45LC. The .45LC loads that I shoot for CAS are going to be useless for what you are talking about. Anything I would want to stop a bear with isn't going tp be pleasant to shoot be it a 44 mag. or a 45LC. The S&W Mountain Gun is an excellent revolver and the load you choose is much more important than where it's the .44 mag. or the 45LC IMO.
 
45 Colt VS Large Angry Bear.....................BEAR WINS!!!!!
Click to expand...

Phil Shoemaker, who has as much experience on big bears as anyone else recommends a .357 with a 180 grain hard cast bullet as a carry gun in bear country.

Now, I can load a 180 grain .357 bullet to about 1200 fps with my Colt Model 357. And I can load my Colt New Service with a hard-cast 255 at about 1,000 fps. If I go with my Ruger Blackhawk, I can drive that same 255 grain bullet to around 1300 fps.

If a 180 grain .357 at 1200 fps will do for bear, surely a 255 grain .45 bullet at 1300 fps wouldn't be less capable.
 
FYI, the 200gr. Blazer Gold Dot averaged 800fps from my model 25-5. The Speer 250gr. Gold Dot averaged a painfully slow 637fps from the same gun. It was a full 150fps slower than advertised in my 7.5" SRH.

To those that think a properly loaded 45 Colt is an inadequate bear hunting cartridge, a heavy, hard cast 45 Colt slug will fully penetrate a cape buffalo and will do the same on elk. John Linebaugh uses a 255-1650gr. Keith slug at 900-1000fps to take deer out to 100+ yards. While nothing is guaranteed when dealing with bear, the 45 Colt certainly gives up nothing to the 44 magnum. In fact, it has it all over the .44.
 
For what it's worth, here's a note I sent to CorBon roughly a year ago:


Mon 7/5/2004 7:02 PM

To: info
Subject: Ammo loads


CorBon,

I have purchased a New S&W Model 25-5 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt. Can I use any and all of your .45 Mag Hunting Ammo without damaging the gun?

Thanks you,
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:15 AM

We used a S&W 25-5 to develop our hunting loads in 45 Colt. Yes it is safe to use in your 625 Mtn gun.

Mike Shovel
Sales Manager
COR-BON/Glaser
 
Or just be done with it and get a Ruger SRH in .454 casull like I did. :D You can also shoot .45 colts in it too. If the .454 won't kill it, well you shouldn't have messed with it. ;) BTW PMC ammo sells a .45 colt +p that is 300gr and rated at 1200fps developing 1071fte, this is definetly .44mag and beyond territory and I can get it for around $22/50box.
 
I asked the same question and got a similar answer. However, I prodded a little more. As it turns out, they have their 625 MG sent in for "freshening" very often as it shoots itself loose from the heavy loads. IMHO, it isn't worth wrecking my 25-5 MG. The heavy loads are reserved for my Redhawk .45.

FWIW, Mike reported their 335gr. hunting load is their lowest pressure load, but he didn't know what pressure it was loaded to. :rolleyes:
 
I have been searching high and low for the 300gr. PMC load and came up empty handed. One of the vendors emailed me saying they believe PMC is discontinuing this load.

Still waiting on DoubleTap to release their 45 COlt line...
 
I asked the same question and got a similar answer. However, I prodded a little more. As it turns out, they have their 625 MG sent in for "freshening"
Click to expand...

That doesn't surprise me. I took it with a grain of salt since the reply came from the Sales Manager and it had no statistics of any kind in the answer. What it told me though it that was perfectly safe to shoot any of their loads which is all I wanted to know since my frequency of shooting Magnum loads would be limited to hunting only and a few "sight in" rounds. If I fire 20 rounds a year of the heavy stuff it would surprise me.

I use their 200gr 1100fps 537ft lb JHP defensive stuff though without any problem. It's actually a pretty accurate cartridge, I was surprised.

Does anyone make a 255 to 265 hard cast in the 1000fps range?
 
Buffalo Bore loads a 255gr. hard cast, gas checked, Keith slug to 1000fps, but it's about $28.00 per 20 rounds. Double Tap will have a few different loads loaded to standard pressure as well as a couple "Ruger Only" loads. They were shooting to add them to the website on July 4th, but as of today the 45 Colt loads are not up.

I suggest you read the John Linebaugh article linked by Mossyrock a little further up. Good read for 25-5 owners.

Keep in mind a sales manager answered you're question, not a tech. I would err on the side of caution when shooting heavier-than-standard pressure loads in your S&W.
 
Turbonatr, I believe you have a twin who frequents "glocking" sites like I do. ;) That's cool. I bought the PMC .45colt+p from Natchezz. At the time I paid $22 a box for 50 but I've noticed their currently out. I hope they don't quit making it. It shoots very well and definetly has some "kick" to it. I't ain't no "cowboy" load. :p I might have to email PMC, they should have a niche in that market, Corbon and Buffalo Bore seem to be the only other factory suppliers for +P loads and for their price I might as well buy .454's. Heck the Magtech .454's that Natchezz sells are great rounds for the price.
 
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