45 GAP Review

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petej88

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I'm currently studying and testing the Glock 37 in 45Gap caliber. I have a url/pointer to my main review. Note: I'm not trying to convert people and I'm definitely not saying the 45 GAP blows everything away.

And yes, I've already read threads from the past year stating how stupid the 45GAP cartridge is and how badly Glock screwed up. You do not have to duplicate all that fine work. BUT, if you really want to add con or pro statements about the 45GAP to plead your case, feel free. I'm not interested in starting a flame war though.

thanks,

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/45gap.defend.htm
 
I think the best application of the 45GAP will be if/when they come out with a G36-sized pistol chambered for it. If the grip is noticably less deep (front to back) then they may be onto something.

I've talked with the local certified Glock Armorer and he is pretty excited with the gun. Of course, he's a 45 guy and is somewhat in the camp that proclaims it to be a waste of time and effort... at least in the G21-sized gun that is the G37. Says there has been a lot of interest and he has tweaked several of them. Funny, but the owner of the store he works out of says that, while he has sold every one he's received, they sell FAR more 19/23/26/27s than 37s.
 
Wow, that looked like some serious work was put into that! Interesting if you look at it objectively as a stand alone caliber w/ the parameters they set up for it. Subjectively tho, I have narrowed my semi auto calibers for simplicity reasons & the 45 GAP just doesn't do anything my current calbiers already cover.
 
I read through the review and I can understand the marketing scam that Glock is running here, however the new gun is only SLIGTHLY smaller in the grip than the Glock 21. When you consider your reasoning behind the versatility of this caliber... that is other manufacturers can 'slightly' alter their current 9mm weapons this doesn't make sense. I'll explain.

Glock had to take a Glock 21 slide and drastically modify it both to fit on the smaller size frame and coutour it so it looked a little less like a monster gun. They they took the G22 frame and modified IT so that you have a different ejector, etc. In other words, neither the frame nor the slide are interchangeable. You therefore have to use a G21 or G37 holster anyhow. the gun is as heavy as a G21 too.

So, tell me how another manufacturer is expected to SLIGHTLY modify their firearms? They have to develop new slides, ejectors, etc. New holsters will have to be developed. Not so simple.

If it was that simple, why didn't the 41 AE and 9mm AE catch on? I would have loved either of those two calibers had they caught on. I frankly wish the 400 Corbon and 357 Sig were more popular. I was surprised and very pleased when the 40 S&W cought on, however most guns made for it are simply modified 9mm's even to this day. Notable exception is the HK USP perhaps. Glock got lucky in that they could have a full-capacity magazine in a 9mm sized gun due to their fat magazine design.
 
Badger Arms stated:

"So, tell me how another manufacturer is expected to SLIGHTLY modify their firearms? They have to develop new slides, ejectors, etc. New holsters will have to be developed. Not so simple."

Very good points. I was thinking along the lines that other companies would not have to build a pistol from the ground up. Instead, they could modify current parts as Glock did. The Glock 37 just uses a G21/45 caliber holster.

For example, SIG could grab a 220 upper and 226 lower and modify it accordingly. This might actually be cheaper and faster than creating a new high cap 220 with new double stack mags. Just a thought.

While the measurements between the G21 and G17 size grip don't look much different, a lot of people would highly disagree with you that there isn't much difference between the two. A whole lot of people prefer the G17/22/31/37 size grip by far over the slightly larger G21 frame.
 
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.45 GAP

My thinking is that it will turn out to be like the .41 Magnum. A small
but faithful following, but won't really catch on in a big way. I also
think that a round-butt, 5-shot revolver with a 3-inch barrel would
make for a neat package, especially if it came with a half dozen
full moon clips.:cool: Something on the order of the .44 caliber
Charter Bulldog with a shorter cylinder. Hmmmm...and fixed sights,
please. Yes, the .41 is my favorite revolver cartridge.:p

Good thread. Hope it stays civil.

Tuner
 
The S&W 625 revolver happens to shoot the 45 GAP very nicely. The half moon clips also work great. I understand S&W is checking into this caliber. We'll just have to wait to see if S&W officially recognizes the new GAP for their revolver.

I'm thinking that the GAP could possibly really catch on when folks realize it can be downloaded to equivalent standard ACP pressures and still easily make Major Power, and making it very tame with fast follow-up shots for USPSA shooting. Nothing's wrong with a big fat hole in the target and a fairly slim Glock grip (or your favorite future pistol brand) packing 10 + 1 45 bullets. ;) Tests so far have shown gap accuracy from 1" - 2.59" at 25 yards.
 
.45 GAP has the potential for allowing gun makers to come up with very small "big-bore" guns. However, I don't think the Glock 37 makes good use of the caliber, since its size advantage over the Glock 21 is rather small.

A 5-shot scandium J-frame in .45 GAP with moon clips would be a heck of a thing. You could make it even shorter front-to-back than the current .38 Specials, but with a way bigger bore. :evil:
 
Little Big Bores

Sean said:

A 5-shot scandium J-frame in .45 GAP with moon clips would be a heck of a thing. You could make it even shorter front-to-back than the current .38 Specials, but with a way bigger bore.

Yessiree bob! It would also be a natural in a resurrected Star PD clone.
A 7/8 scale 1911 would carry nicely. Stop the presses! We want a little
1911 in .45 GAP!
 
Unfortunately there's no room in the J frame for a .45 cal hole in the frame.
Otherwise I'd have two already.

But I couldn't agree more, a snubby like that would be a dream come true. - JM.
 
J-Frame

There is in the K-frame though...:cool: Maybe just a little
re-engineering around the front at the barrel junction...
Taurus did it with the .44 Special...Charter Arms did it
with the Bulldog...Anybody out there listenin'?

I still like the PD Star-sized concept. Betcha that one would
be a cakewalk.:cool:
 
Some folks just prefer larger diameter holes do infinitely deep holes, I guess...

Without having to look it up, how much shorter is a 45GAP than a 45ACP? About .1" or .2"? Is that really going to make a noticably smaller overall sized 5-shot revolver? I mean, I can understand wanting to make a shallower grip, but when talking length of a revolver, would you really even notice .2"?
 
.357 Magnum

Badger said:

But if you're going to put it on a K frame, why not just shoot the more effective 357 magnum?

The noise sir...and the flash! Ever touched off a top-end .357
round in a short barrelled revolver at night without ear plugs?:what:
The adventures of Winken, Blinken, and Can't Hear Squat!

cratz...2 tenths of an inch ain't much, for sure...but every little bit
helps. A K-frame sized revolver with a round butt and nearly a quarter-inch length reduction would be a sweet trail gun. I think the cartridge has the potential to be a nice intermediate between the .40 and the .45
ACP. It could also be a better .40 than the .40...I like the cartridge,
just not the proprietary gun that chambers it. No slam on the Glock, understand. It just don't hit my hand right.

A 165-grain, 45 caliber bullet at 1200 fps from a 3-inch barrel would
be heap big medicine at arm's length.

ANyway...The thread's completely hijacked now...back to the original
question.:D

Cheers!
Tuner
 
Put this .45GAP into a Glock 26 and then I'll be impressed. Right now I am still just not feeling it.
Good work on the review... you make some strong arguements for viability.

The P220 slide on a P226 frame isn't one of them. Now put that .45 Gap in a P239 and then we'll talk.
 
The round is growing on me. At least now I am beginning to appreciate its utility. I am still renting the G37 from time to time. I would like a downloaded version for practice. Don't really need +P ballistics. I am with you George, I am gonna wait for a compact or subcompact before I plunk down the cash. I with HK would consider the round for their P2000 series, or heck gimme a singlestack USP. :)
 
First-rate review. Well written and I learned a lot.
I really like 1911Tuner’s idea of a 45GAP snubby.
 
I haven't shot one yet... Can anyone offer an opinion comparing the recoil to, say a G21 shooting 200 Gr +P ACPs?
 
First of all, thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm glad we're still not at the point of "stupid GAP and stupid Glock". At least you are doing some deep breathing before responding. I do appreciate that.

Cratz2,

The beginning part of my article goes over all the case dimensions that you are curious about. When you look at these numbers, you might be surprised. It's in the Quick History section.

Lennyjoe,

I've just started doing some reloading and I can honestly say that shooting the GAP at standard ACP pressures is really sweet and tame, and still quite easy to make Major Power and have very fast double-taps. More info from what others think is listed towards the end of the article.

Also, I just added some pointers in the Reloading section of High Road for those interested about reloading this new critter.

Something else to consider when thinking of other gun possibilities. Some of the other firearms companies might be able to do some very interesting things to compete with Glock. The 2004 Shot Show might be very interesting in this respect. I'm fairly sure Glock will be coming out with a GAP compact. I wouldn't be surprised if Springfield Armory, Sigarms, and/or S&W make some announcements. Of course I could just be dreaming. But the rumor mill is rampant right now with no official statements that I'm aware of. But since Glock is pushing the GAP, others will obviously want to compete with Glock's lockhold on the Law Enforcement market.

When you think about it, the first half of 2003 was development time for the Glock 37 and even for the GAP ammo. Both of which were released during the second half of 2003. Despite the extreme negativity towards Glock's decisions, the GAP has made amazing progress within just a few months. We now have at least two major ammo companies (Winchester and Speer), with more companies gearing up, to supply all the GAP ammo in combinations of (185 - 230 grains). Hodgdon even has some gap reloads as low as 155 grains. Several Law Enforcement Agencies are testing the GAP right now and some really like it. Even so paperwork is slow and it will probably be awhile before you see agencies using it. And then we have the "other firearm company" rumors......;)
 
Confused...

Everyone keeps saying that the G37 grip is only slightly smaller than the G21.

Chuck Taylor's review said that the G37 uses the same frame as the G17.

Who is right?
 
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