45 Gap

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
539
My understanding is power wise the 45GAP and 45ACP are indentical but i may be wrong

What are the advantages and disadvantages of GAP to ACP?

And how difficult is GAP ammo to find? And its ammo cost vs ACP?
 
.45GAP was made for LE agencies that wanted a .45 that fit in the 9x19mm/.40S&W grip frame.

It's been adopted by 8% of the state law enforcement agencies in the USA.

It has same power (FPS/FT-LBS) as a .45ACP just in a smaller package.
 
.45GAP v .45acp

I'd say the standard workhorse .45acp load is slightly more powerful than the newer .45GAP.
To me, the .45GAP is the answer to a question no one asked. :rolleyes: I think Glock put out the .45 load to build a new market for a large caliber duty/CC/protection pistol. The regular 10mm and/or .45acp models like the G 29, 30, 21, 20, etc would fit those uses but what the *&$# do I know, :D.
For the record, the PA State Police replaced the old style 96D .40 Smith & Wesson Beretta semi auto pistols(with custom Robar NP3/Trijicon 3 dot nightsights) with stock Glock .45GAPs, :rolleyes:.

Rusty S
 
It's a good round and the federal hst ammo in this caliber expands beautifully. The Glock 38 is essentially the 19 that can fire .45 g.a.p. I love the 19 for one, but couldn't seem to fire the higher power as consistently. I seemed to go to the left a bit.
 
I believe the .45GAP is an interesting caliber, but in my opinion, it has the same big drawback that the .45ACP suffers from.....low magazine capacity when compared to a 9mm or even a .40S&W.
 
isn't that what the 40S&W was intended for to be have close stopping power to the .45 and capacity more like the 9mm pistols.i dont see much use for the 45GAP
 
isn't that what the 40S&W was intended for to be have close stopping power to the .45 and capacity more like the 9mm pistols.i dont see much use for the 45GAP
.40S&W was intended to be the FBI's wonder round that would perform better than and replace the 9x19mm, .38Special, .357Magnum and .45ACP for law enforcement use.


I'd say the standard workhorse .45acp load is slightly more powerful than the newer .45GAP.
http://le.atk.com/

Federal/American Eagle .45GAP 230gr FMJ = 880FPS / 395Ft-lbs
Federal/American Eagle .45ACP 230gr FMJ = 890FPS / 404Ft-lbs

Federal .45GAP 230gr Tactical HST = 890FPS / 404Ft-lbs
Federal .45ACP 230gr Tactical HST = 890FPS / 404Ft-lbs

Speer/Lawman .45GAP 185gr FMJ = 1060FPS / 462Ft-lbs
Speer/Lawman .45ACP 185gr FMJ = 1000FPS / 411Ft-lbs

Speer .45GAP 185gr LE Gold Dot = 1090FPS / 488Ft-lbs
Speer .45ACP 185gr LE Gold Dot = 1050FPS / 453Ft-lbs

Speer/Lawman .45GAP 200gr FMJ = 990FPS / 435Ft-lbs
Speer/Lawman .45ACP 200gr FMJ = 975FPS / 422Ft-lbs

Speer .45GAP 200gr LE Gold Dot = 1020FPS / 462Ft-lbs
Speer .45GAP 230gr LE Gold Dot = 890FPS / 404Ft-lbs
 
I carried a G38 all day yesterday. It's my rain carry. Living in Florida, it rains. What are you gonna do ?
I'm very happy with the size and performance of the 38.
 
The GAP has the same power as the ACP, but only when compared to standard-pressure ACP loads. GAP ammo tends to be more expensive than ACP ammo.

I think it was designed to sell guns. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it just does nothing for me, personally.
 
I bought a Glock 37 .45 GAP because it fits my hand better than the full size Glock .45acp. I like it and have no regrets.
 
GAP ammo is not soooo hard to find in Colorado, but its more costly than the ACP. I got rid of the G38 for this reason.
 
Be prepared to always paying more for 45GAP ammo v. .45ACP as well as having far fewer choices of loads.

Fewer gun as well as far fewer & more expensive magazines, options/upgradable components for 45GAP v. .45ACP.

Never fired the 45GAP and I have no doubts it is a reliable bullet, just have no need for even more expensive version of the reliable .45ACP.
 
I carry a Glock 37 (.45 GAP) as a duty weapon, and have been doing so for about the last four years.

The primary reason that I chose the GAP is because of the size of the pistol. I had been accustomed to shooting a Glock 22 (.40 S&W) for the previous ten years, and that cartridge is not authorized with my current department.

As such, I decided that I wanted to make the switch to a .45 (we could choose between 9mm, .45GAP, .45ACP). The Glock 37 is almost identical in all practical dimensions to my Glock 22, which made switching between the two very easy.

Here's my experiences with the GAP:

1) Very manageable recoil
2) Very reliable, with approximately 8,000-10,000 rounds through my gun without a single malfunction
3) Comparable to a .45ACP ballistically (I carry Speer Gold dot ammo, with 200gr bullets).

I think it is also worth noting that the difference in ammo prices between ACP and GAP is decreasing. I was surprised to find that they were only $1-2 difference per box the last time that I was at Sportsman's Warehouse (can't recall exact prices off the top of my head).

Obviously I don't sweat ammo prices too much at the moment for this gun, as my department is really responsible for feeding it a steady diet of fresh ammunition :)

Ultimately there are still a lot more ACP ammo choices floating around, but the GAP is still becoming a viable cartridge in my mind.
 
Glock 39 .45 GAP

Historically here in Colorado I have primarily concealed carried a Glock 30 compact .45 ACP equipped with LaserMax 1191 and another option.
Sometimes I carry a S&W Model 60 .357 equipped with CTC laser.
On rare "pocket pistol" occasions, I carry an old AMT Backup .380 which has been always faithful on the range (the current flock of small pistols doesn’t seem to offer an option of external safety).

During 2008 I sought a subcompact auto.

Considering .40, I began reading reviews, articles, opinions and statistics but concluded that I really would prefer to stay with the .45 round.
I began reading reviews, articles, opinions and statistics about the Glock 39 .45 GAP .

As expected there are many opinions and ideas from both sides of the fence so I focused on the technologies surrounding the performance of the 45 GAP round.

It is true that .45 GAP ammunition is not currently heavily stocked in many smaller stores (it seems to vary on where in the country you are).

In all fairness, when S&W first released it's own ammunition (.38 S&W, for example) there would have been a ramp up acceptance time, too.
Aside from that there are many somewhat unique ammunition here in the US so it may not be reasonable to finger the GAP without considering other things we tolerate.

A quick scan of the Cheaper Than Dirt catalog reveals choices such as: .454 Casull, .50 S&W, 10mm, .357 Sig (vs. Magnum) and others.

Why is it really a surprise that Glock, with the massive international market share that it enjoys, would be any different from S&W when it sees an opportunity to create an extremely powerful subcompact using an advanced technology round? (Recoil, in my opinion is quite manageable. Similar to my .45 ACP Glock 30).

After weighing all the factors, I made what I considered to be a deliberate and informed decision based on available information.

Now I most often conceal carry the subcompact full-power Glock 39 .45 GAP equipped with a LaserMax 1171 and another option.
If I am on a trip away from my home I may carry the compact G30 as the .45 ACP is currently more prevalent but for normal day-to-day concealed carry, I find the subcompact G39 more comfortable.
Regarding my purchase of the G39 .45 GAP ?
No regrets, no looking back.
In my opinion, as an owner of one, I would do it again.

During the warmer months I carry with frangilble Extreme Shock "Air Freedom Rounds (AFR)" ammunition.
During the colder months I carry with Extreme Shock frangible "Enhanced Penetration Round (EPR)" ammunition.
 

Attachments

  • SNAG-0000.jpg
    SNAG-0000.jpg
    75.1 KB · Views: 19
  • SNAG-0001.jpg
    SNAG-0001.jpg
    74.6 KB · Views: 32
Last edited:
During the warmer months I carry with frangilble Extreme Shock "Air Freedom Rounds (AFR)" ammunition.
During the colder months I carry with Extreme Shock frangible "Enhanced Penetration Round (EPR)" ammunition.

I strongly advise you to take that ammo out of your pistol and save it for shooting up at the gun range. Load up your GAP pistol with standard Winchester Ranger Talon 230gr JHPs or Federal HST 230gr JHPs.....or as a last resort regular 230gr FMJ. There is a reason why no law enforcement agency in the country authorizes Extreme Shock or any other super light fragmenting pistol ammunition like Glaser, BMT, or DRT. It does not work if you are trying to stop a determined attacker that doesn't care if he gets shot a few times in the process of killing you. It is very shallow penetrating and creates very shallow wounds. Here's some important literature you should read which remains true and has been a reliable resource for years:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Take your time, and read it in detail if you can.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm

Better yet, if you have the patience to read and try to understand the danger you are putting yourself into in using Extreme Shock ammo you would also want to read the various articles that can be found on the home page.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tactical.htm


Back to the GAP. It's an interesting cartridge that could have some promise. It can be loaded up to standard pressure .45acp velocities and is shorter for more ergonomic grip designs. It is also a safer cartridge design with a thicker case wall and small pistol primer. However, I don't think it will go anywhere unless it gets major police agency adoption or military adoption. After all, the .40S&W probably wouldn't have gone very far if it did not receive the wide spread agency adoption that it has.
 
oh my lord is that a manual safety on a glock?

I noticed that too. ***???

To the original question, the GAP is the answer to Glock's inability to make a .45 ACP that fits smaller hands comfortably; The 9mm & .40 Glocks have a grip circumference that rivals double-column 10mm & .45 ACP pistols from other manufacturers. The poor success of the GAP led to the development of the 21/30 SF, which is what Glock should have done in the first place.

That said, outside of the US, the GAP may have a market in those countries that do not allow civilians to possess military calibers. The .45 ACP short was created for this reason.

Personally, I find it useless.
 
015255,

Marcus L. is 100% correct!

Here is a list of .45 ACP ammo that will suit your needs very nicely. IIRC, this is from testing done by Ammolab and these rounds met the penetration and expansion criteria for carry rounds used for SD:

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230gr+P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical Bonded 230gr+P JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr+P JHP (RA45TP)
Winchester Ranger Bonded 230gr JHP (RA45B)


Personally, I use the Winchester Ranger RA45T, RA45TP and Speer's Gold Dots. I run mostly with the RA45TP which is a +P round.


Please heed Marcus L's advice about that "Extreme Shock" boutique ammo.
If I had that stuff, I wouldn't trust it to stop anything bigger than a Cocker Spaniel. No sir, I'm not joking.
 
Last edited:
FRANGIBLE BULLETS and EXTERNAL SAFETY

Good stuff.
Terrific comments.

With bullet construction technologies and powder mixes having made major strides in recent years, those documents containing current research dating to within the past half-decade are of most interest.

This is a reason why I chose the Glock 39 as it provided the highest handgun output potential from a subcompact pistol.
Remember: The bad guys live in the 21st century and so should we.

Regarding the use of frangible rounds, understanding the likely deployments of the round would be helpful.

During 2008 we read about a pilot for example who, when storing his weapon just prior to landing, experienced an accidental discharge that created a bullet hole all the way through the fuselage.
Here we might suppose that a resource such as the Extreme Shock "Air Freedom Round (AFR)" may have a place for a pilot or Air Marshall as well as many other environments not at all related to aircraft.

Has anyone seen any fairly recent independent test results or reviews published on the current frangible rounds, such as the previously cited Enhanced Penetration Round (EPR) by Extreme Shock?
http://www.extremeshockammo.net/product.asp?categoryid=39&productID=33
Local range testing continues to look extremely favorable to me which is why, at this time, I have carried them.

Never interested in compromising safety but always looking for a better technology, I remain extremely interested in reviewing whatever documents and/or experiences that I can find related to the current flock of frangible rounds.

In like manner, a manual safety in certain scenarios can make sense, as well.
Reflect again on the circumstances of a pilot or Air Marshall where the wellfare of hundreds of passengers is in his charge.
Other scenarios might include a pistol grab (slow down the perp who is not looking for it) and/or reholstering.
During the summer of 2008 a Colorado law enforcement officer discharged his weapon during reholster at the range.
If you know the external safety is there and practice constantly with it, there is no increase in time-to-discharge because it is released as the weapon is drawn from the holster (or pocket in certain implementations).
Just like the reason many people concealed carry in the first place: Extra insurance... if done right.

To those of you that have shared your opinions... Thanks.
For those that have shared documents, facts, and test results, I greatly appreciate that.
Always interested in more...
 
Last edited:
The .45 GAP is to give .45ACP reloaders the same pain that 9mm reloaders suffer culling out the slightly smaller cases :(

No use for it other than stroke Gaston's ego. Compare the XD45 to the XD45-GAP and the XD40. No real need for the GAP IMHO.

--wally.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top