Honest answer from .45gap haters please

[hartzpad]

I am not a fan of Glocks and I have never shot a pistol chambered in .45gap, but if .45gap has the real world performance of a .45acp that many magazines claim with a shorter overall length, unless you really like to shoot +p.45acp, why all the hate?

I can't seem to understand why everyone hates .45gap when:
1) likely 95% of them have not even shot it before
2) it holds a distinct advantage over .45acp in that it can fit in more compact frame pistols
3) claimed to have same ballistics as .45acp
4) could be the be all/end all cartridge for CCW

The only 3 reasons I can think of to justify hating .45gap are:
1) ammo availibility, especially if it never catches on like .40 S&W has
2) you prefer to shoot +P.45acp ammo (I would guess that very few actually shoot +P in their .45's, although some do
3) tradition of the .45acp cartridge and the considered heresy of introducing a "newer", "better" .45 cartridge.

If .45gap catches on at the rate it has been, I don't see any reason why I should not make all my .45's chambered in GAP instead of ACP in the future. In a few years, .45gap should be almost as cheap if the not the same price, just as available, can fit in smaller frame pistols and will be just as easy to get as .45acp. GAP obviously needs further real world testing and experience to even be considered even close to the holy, but I see it happening in the next few years.

If you are in the least considering a .45 pistol for concealed carry, how would you ever denounce the .45gap? It seems to be illogical. Stuborness?

 

[LeonCarr]

I am a certified Glockoholic, and I don't care much for the .45 GAP. I think the .45 ACP is a better round. If the .45 ACP were loaded to the same pressure as the .45 GAP, it would be a much better performer, and they could have put the .45 ACP in a standard frame Glock if they would have went to a single/staggered stack magazine holding ten rounds. They had the engineering, they did it with the Glock 36. I think that they just wanted their name on a cartridge. IMO a full-size Glock in .45 ACP, built on the 9mm/.40/.357 Sig frame, would have been truly awesome .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[hartzpad]

Thanks for the answer.

Just 2 questions:

1) Have you personally shot a pistol chambered in .45gap?

2) Why do you think the .45acp a better round? Just because you can load it hotter (even though 99% of people praise the standard loading)?

I'm just trying to figure out why so many people hate this newcomer when on paper it looks to be superior to .45acp in many ways.

 

[ulflyer]

For me, its a simple answer: I don't hate any calibre, but I do reload 45acp for the several guns that I have and do not intend to invest in more reloading equip for a single/limited use cartridge.

 

[glocker1911]

I own and carry a G37. I bought it because my hands have carpal syndrome and I can hold it better than the bigger G21 without giving up any performance. Would I rather have seen Glock make a full size single stack 45acp? H*** yes! But they didn't, so I tried the gap and I like it. I never carried +p in acp so that's why I say I didn't give up any performance. I would not see any use for the gap in a 1911 platform, but in a double stack gun like a Glock, it let's them use a smaller frame. And you are correct. Most people dumping hate on the gap have never even tried one. If you think it has no purpose and would never buy one, that's great. But please move along and quit telling those of us who like it how wrong we are. Personal choice, that's what it's all about.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I like that GAP gives shooters the option of having .45 in a more compact frame.
Why you would carry fewer bullets in the same size gun escapes me though. More is better than bigger...especially when comparing a .45 autoloader (GAP or ACP) to a .40S&W. There is so little difference.

 

[HRT]

Simple...I don't own anything in the caliber and the addition of the short cases mucks up my brass recovery and my reloading. In a like manner I hate the Winchester NTsmall primer 45 auto brass and think we should boycott WW until they quit making the junk

 

[Maddock]

I don’t have anything against the .45GAP.
My issues are with the pistols that are or will be chambered in the cartridge. I have no affection for any of the Glock offerings in any caliber. I just can’t warm to the way they look or feel. The GAP is an effort to put a .45ACP into a 9Para size (action length) pistol. So far so good. But turning a big blocky wonder-nine into a big blocky wonder-fortyfive has no appeal for me. That said - if someone would come out with a Kahr size 45GAP single stack, they would have my attention.

 

[Ash]

No hate. Just don't see what's so great about it. For years, those who love it most bashed .45's the most. Seemed 9mm was great, 45 not. Now, however, we have .45GAP and whooosh, it is a great round, better than ACP. I don't get it. Does it really do what .40S&W can't do? What about 9mm (I have a CZ-75 in 9mm, so I like the round)? It seems to be a dead end of sorts.

Think about it, do you think it'll win many who are ACP lovers? Many who like the older .45 are devout adherants to its utility and are not likely to give it up for a smaller case length. That leaves the .40 and 9mm crowds. Many of the Wonder Nine crowd can see no purpose to going larger since the 9mm is the best thing since the invention of the drawn brass cartridge, they believe their round is as good or better than the .45ACP (not to start anything here). So why go with fewer rounds when they are convinced of the usefulness of the 9mm? That leaves the .40 crowd, which is the most maleable when it comes to changes, and then the fringe .357 Sig users just don't make up that many more people. Old Slabsiders as a rule won't be interested nor will the bulk of 9-o-philes. Does Glock really believe they will eclipse the .40S&W and .357 Sig markets, which has to be where they are ultimately aiming?


Those of the 9mm ilk will have to acknowedge that they were wrong, that 9mm isn't the best in order to embrace GAP, that ACP was truly the best cartridge, but a bit too big and that, I doubt.

However, this is what I stated not long after GAP appeared on the scene...

"Though, to go on record, .45GAP is a fine round with good potential along with .357 Sig and .400 Corbond, perhaps gaining more popularity than either of the above. I'll not likely have a pistol chambered for it, and its advantages aren't as good as originally stated as pressure and force on the slides means that pistols will still have some heft to them (otherwise someone would have come up with a .45 that small already), but that is as much due to my current caliber ownership and the desire not to add another to the pot (I only have the big three, 9mm, 10mm lite, and .45ACP). But as long as I can get my ammo, bring on more calibers. We've not even begun to reach the complexity of rifle ammo selections!"

Ash

 

[albanian]

The problem with the .45GAP as I see it is, it is marketed to morons! Thats right people, it is marketed to people that think the .45cal is somehow magical. The .45GAP can't and won't do a darn thing that the .40S&W won't do just as well. I am not even a .40 fan but in this one case, I think the .40S&W has the edge. The GAP is made for people that seem to think the five hundreths of an inch in caliber is going to be the difference between putting a bad guy down for the count or having the same bad guy walk right through your hail of undersized .40S&W bullets and killing you with his bare hands.

Lets get real, the .45ACP is not really any better than the .40S&W so why then is the shorter and weaker .45GAP supposed to offer some great advantage? I like paying three times as much for ammo as I should as much as the next guy but I at least want something for the pleasure. If you subscribe to the idea that as long as you have a gun in .45 cal you will be fine, then by all means, get some .45GAP and be happy. If you are beyond all those old wives tales, then the GAP looks like what it is, a gimmick.

 

[Mr Bangdango]

I've shot a G37 and it left me with the same impression I get when I shoot any Glock. Glocks are (in my opinion) designed to be a simple,reliable,and cheap (in price) handgun meant to be bought in lots to be issued to agencies. That is what it's for and that's the role it fills. Thing is, people see what officer so-and-so is carrying and wants one becouse it must be a good choice and Glock-O-mania is born. That being said, I was of the opinion that the .45gap was mostly meant for countries that limit who can have a handgun in a military caliber. Personally, I'll take a .45acp over a .45gap.

 

[Edmond]

I'm saving my opinion for the .45gap until I shoot one. Until then, I won't be worried about it.

 

[only1asterisk]

Hate? Hate is a strong word.
I don't need to shoot one to think the 45 GAP is a dead end. Why would I? Do you really think shooting it will change an experienced shooters opinion?

The 45 ACP is common and widespread. The practical ballistic difference is nil. Is there any benefit to that 3/32" grip reduction? That's a personal thing, but it doesn't help me a bit. If the 45 GAP ever gets popular, I'm going to carefully sort all my 45 ACP to keep all the 45 GAP trash out.

David

 

[CougarRed]

I don't own a .45GAP yet, but I am considering it.

I think it will be slightly better than a .40S&W, only because:

1. It is slightly larger - bigger wound channel.
2. Its case is thicker - less likely to kaboom.

 

[c_yeager]

Well its a whole nuther cartridge to keep track of. And even the manufacture freely admits that it does absolutely nothing that ACP doesnt. I can justify nearly every cartridge out there as having a purpose, but the GAP is exactly the same as an existing cartridge from every measure of performance. It seems like a lot of work to go through just to get a cartridge that is slightly shorter in length.

 

[glocker1911]

I'd like to post some more positive reasons, coming from someone who actuall owns and shoots one, but as it turns out, I guess I'm a moron who only owns a dreaded Glock because I don't know any better and only own a gap because I never heard of this new fangled 40 s&w thing. Enjoy yourself guys. Hey, when you're done kicking this caliber thing around, did you hear pop comes in aluminum cans now? Let's hear it for steel cans, this aluminum thing has no point.

 

[Ash]

Hey Glocker, don't get so offended. Post well, if you will. Be positive. Come to GAP's defense. All is well.

Of course, the GAP for Morons statement is pretty silly, too. I see it as a solution to a problem yet voiced, but for morons, well, I wouldn't call it productive (and gives voice to Glockites who get irritated at Glock Bashers) to say that. Indeed, it's insulting and does nothing to further conversation.

By the way, did you know soup and vegetables come in steel cans?

Ash

 

[45auto]

I think a lot of the "hate" started on Glock talk because they wanted a single stack 45ACP, instead of a different round.

For the shooter, it would have been easier for Glock to introduce a single stack in the common ACP caliber. For Glock, obviously, easier to keep their existing frame and modify the case.

No doubt the GAP is as good as the ACP, just not needed. The "tail" wagged the "dog" on this one. We'll see if consumers are the King, or Gaston.

 

[hartzpad]

the whole point is, if both .45gap and .45acp have the same performance, why would you choose .45acp over .45gap? When considering a concealed carry pistol in .45gap, I think that alone justifies .45gap. Like a previous poster said, a .45gap chambered single stack Kahr pistol would be sweet.

 

[boofus]

.45acp has ~100 years of proven performance as many dead Japanese, Germans, Vietnamese, Italians, islamofacists can attest.

Maybe after the .45gap has proven itself people will warm up to it.

 

[Vitamin G]

I'll warm up to it after the 100 years

Really though, the biggest turn off for me was seeing writers compare weak loaded .45acp to .45GAP and claiming its superiority.

.45acp > or = .45GAP
.45acp+P >>> .45GAP

 

[Ash]

True. The best ACP beats the best GAP. And, since there can be no +P GAP, then the best GAP out there is the best you can get.

Keep in mind, Remington has largely been spanked in the caliber wars with Winchester. Most of Remington's offerings were token clones with slight alterations from Winchester. As a result, the Remingtons either fell by the way side or are distant seconds to Winchester. There are a few that are king, of course, but for instance, the .280 Remington has never come close to the .270 Winchester. And there are many Remington loads that don't even exist anymore.

Same goes for Colt versus Smith and Wesson in revolvers. The majority of revolver calibers are S&W (.38S&W, .38 Special, .357 Mag, etc.). What ever Winchester came up with, Colt copied and got trounced. About the only great Colt caliber left in revolvers is the .45LC.

However, Colt (Browning) ruled supreme in the auto caliber market (save for 9mm). Even there, the .38ACP proved that coming up with something close to an established round can be pretty silly. Which one is king? .38ACP is obsolete, replaced by .38Super, which is still far, far behind 9mm in popularity. On the other end of the spectrum, 9mm MAK can't compete with 9mmPara or .380, being chambered in mostly surplus pistols. It is more powerful than .380 but not by much. It is smaller than para but less powerful. Once surplus Maks are dried up, does anyone really think 9mm mak will do anything but go the way of 9mmLargo?

Ash

 

[hartzpad]

I would guess that 99% of all .45acp shooter do not shoot +p in their .45's, so the argument that .45gap cannot compete with +p.45acp is very negligible and not very important. What is impressive is to be able to shoot .45gap out of a compact frame handgun. The first .45 I buy will likely be .45acp, but that does not mean that .45gap isn't impressive. If it catches on I will likely own multiple pistols in .45gap. I do admit that I am a Glock hater in many ways, but I don't hate .45gap just because it wears Glock's name because I recognize the great advantages that it will bring to shooters.

 

[Ash]

Ah, but 99% of shooters who pick calibers pick them because of what they are capable of doing. I may buy bulk FMJ .45ACP (or 9mm, for that matter), but if I select a self defense caliber, I do so based on the max I can expect. In truth, in general practice, the GAP and ACP are not likely to be very different (the guy shot and the medic treating him won't know the difference). Yet, on paper, ACP wins out. That is where many who choose calibers make their choice (yes, really, it is), by looking up in ballistics tables and, whoa, there you go (or, watching TV or movies). The sheer volume of ACP handguns out there, creates a giant mountain over which GAP must climb. That mountain grows even taller with 9mm, .40S&W, ACP, .357SIG, .380, 9mmMak, etc are added to the mix.

In the end, GAP is a weaker round compared to ACP of similar pressures. That is a fact that cannot be passed by.

Ash

 

[orangeninja]

Personally I don't hate the .45GAP....though I don't really see a practical reason for it.

For 9mm perfomance, you have a lot of flexability (95gr to 147), good stopping power, high capacity, cheap to shoot, available anywhere etc. proven track record that seems to be getting better with newer HP designs etc.

For 40 S&W this is the new LEO standard, semi high capacity, lots of flexability (155gr. to 180) can be very small sized, excellent stopping power, semi cheap to shoot, available anywhere and comes in 9mm type sized frames, getting a proven track record.

For 45ACP excellent stopping power, low capacity, not that cheap to shoot but very reloadable, available anywhere, made in "man sized" guns, proven track record.

Then you have the step children.

.357 Sig, not very flexable only a couple of sized bullets, performance very close to a real hot 9mm, not cheap to shoot though getting better, not much of a track record though getting more data, can't be loaded +P really and not everywhere though getting better. I believe this round WILL become cheaper and more available as many LEO agencies (just to be different/make Sig happy/whatever) have adopted this round. I.E. Texas Rangers, Dept. of Tres., Air Marshalls, etc. Lastly, somthing about driving a 9mm bullet with a .40 S&W powder charge makes these things VERY accurate.

.45 GAP. Not cheap, not available everywhere, not sure of the flexability of the design but seems a little on the limited side. Not a great demand for it in LEO markets which could ultimately be the demise of a round I.E. 41 action express, 10mm etc. Not a vast improvement on the .40 S&W if any at all. Basically it's a big bore in a small frame for guys with little hands who like big bores. Limited application for this round. I don't see it lasting unless by some miracle the FBI or somebody picks up this round for their agents. Thus buying a gun in this chambering would be fairly short sighted.