.45 Long Colt popularity, or lack of?

[valnar]

I don't own any guns chambered for .45LC, but am thinking of getting my fist one. I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special. So I am surprised at the lack of ammo brands and availability of these guns. Why is that?

It seems on paper to be the perfect cartridge. Big, yet faster than .45ACP or .44Special. Not as fast as a Magnum, so it won't hurt the hand as much. 225 grains at about 950fps. Yah, that seems just about right for a manstopper.

The only S&W gun I can buy with a .45LC is a 625, and its not even listed on the Smith & Wesson site anymore. Why not more choices? Yes, I know there are many Single Action choices, but why not mainstream SA/DA?

Can anyone explain the popularity of this cartridge lasting over a century, yet also the unpopularity of it?

-Robert

 

[C.R.Sam]

Not all that many folks into big bore stuff.

Unless the marketers have hung the "Magnum" label on it.

Sam

 

[HogRider]

If you look at hand loader forums you will be surprised that the 45 Colt is probably the most popular caliber out there. With modern and strong built revolvers ( Rugers for example ) the 45 LC can be loaded to and actually beyond 44 Magnum levels.

But I can understand the dislike of this caliber from the non re loaders, because most of the factory ammo is loaded to a level where it can be still shot in Colt's SAA and the clones.

Personally, it is my favorite cartridge.

 

[Tamara]

I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special.

Actually, it's been around since 1873.

Ruger and Taurus both catalog DA guns in the caliber, and S&W and Colt both occasionally turn out batches, too. ( The 625 and the on-again, off-again Anaconda, currently a Custom Shop offering in .44 Mag only, but will probably reappear in .45 sooner or later.)

 

[Old Fuff]

The .45 Colt was originally designed for use in single-action revolvers, so it has a relatively small diameter rim for it's body. The .44 Special/.44 Magnum has the same rim as the .45, but a smaller dia. body. This may (or may not) cause a problem in modern double-action revolvers that have star extractors which must push on the cartridge's rim while it clears all of the chambers at once.

Therefore I prefer the S&W series of .44 cartridges in double-action revolvers while I often pick the .45 Colt in single-actions.

A Ruger or Freedom Arms single-action will handle .45 Colt handloads which will do anything the .44 Magnum will, and then some. At the other end of the scale it is one of the most accurate rounds available when used with moderate loads.

 

[Parker Dean]

I've been looking at the .45 Colt and as has been mentioned it looks good on paper for a SD cartridge in standard loadings while it can go as high as a middle range .454 with modern brass.

One thing I don't particularly care for is the narrow rim. It's about .10in while the magnum rims are .25in. This could result in a case hung up under the extractor if you're not careful and we all know just exactly when the problem would occur.

But I just have this thing for oddball/obsolete cartridges so I'm going to get a .45 Colt revolver. Right now leaning towards the Anaconda.


edit: Just remembered that there are a LOT of reports of improperly sized throats and barrels on the .45 Colt revo's. Smiths and Rugers tend to have throats too small. Smiths tend to get a pinch point in the barrel. Colts tend toward oversized throats and barrels. Be sure to get yours checked out first. Too small is an easy fix, but oversize would be an expensive pain unless under warranty.

 

[444]

The .45 Colt is FAR from an oddball or obsolete cartridge. How oddball can a cartridge be when it is loaded by every major cartridge company and by many smaller specialty manufacturers ? How can the cartridge be obsolete when it is avialable as a standard chambering from Ruger, Taurus, Freedom Arms, American Derringer, Winchester, several Italian comapanies in both rifles and revolvers, S&W, and Colt ? How can a cartridge that out performs the .44 Magnum be obsolete ?

I currently own two .45 Colts, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Winchester 94 Trapper. The .45 Colt is a wonderful cartridge. As was mentioned, it is very accurate, easy to handload, and has more than enough horsepower for all but the most demanding tasks.

 

[WESHOOT2]

.452", 335g

Suggest considering before buying what your platform will be launching. While the Anaconda is decently robust it will not withstand a steady diet of "Ruger" loads.
The Anaconda CAN BE extremely accurate.

(I have a 5.5" Redhawk.)

 

[Parker Dean]

Originally posted by 444
The .45 Colt is FAR from an oddball or obsolete cartridge. How oddball can a cartridge be when it is loaded by every major cartridge company and by many smaller specialty manufacturers ? How can the cartridge be obsolete when it is avialable as a standard chambering from Ruger, Taurus, Freedom Arms, American Derringer, Winchester, several Italian comapanies in both rifles and revolvers, S&W, and Colt ? How can a cartridge that out performs the .44 Magnum be obsolete ?

Uh huh. Methinks you doth protest too much

Personally I place the .45 Colt in more of the oddball category than obsolete, and even then the "oddball" label is a bit stronger than I want but I can't think of an alternative term at the moment.

All the things you pointed out about availability of guns/cartridges in .45 Colt can be said of the 10mm but I don't see anyone trying to say the 10 is mainstream either.

The way I look at it I can walk into just about any gunshop in the nation and be almost certain of finding handguns in .25ACP, 9mm, 38SP, .357, 40 S&W, 44Mag, and 45ACP. OTOH, to find 10mm and 45 Colt's I have to do a bit of looking. That IMO places them in more the oddball category than the mainstream although they are not so oddball as to be nearly impossible to find like some of the TRULY obsolete stuff.

 

[Mannlicher]

I think its time to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the rim on the .45 Colt will cause any type of problem at all when used in swing out cylinder revolvers. I have been using this cartridge in Colt, and Smith revolvers for about 40 years now, and I have never seen personally, nor have I been shown credible evidence that the rim is a problem. For all the bleating and pontificating on this subject, I have yet to see a case problem.

 

[WESHOOT2]

IPSC RELOADS

When using my (5.5" stainless) 45 Colt Redhawk at a match I noticed some difficulty ejecting spent cases rapidly; I attribute this to the small rim.
When operating at 'normal' speed the trouble disappears.

NO trouble ejecting nuclear-powered cases. Except those pesky R-P's.

 

[Old Fuff]

Consider yourself fortunate ......

I have seen instances where double-action S&W and Colt revolvers chambered in .45 Colt have had problems with the extractor star slipping past the case rim after the case was extracted about 2/3's of the way.

The rim depth (distance between the outside of the rim to the case body) can be as little as .015" on a .45 Colt. Compare that to .028" on a .44 Special/.44 Magnum; .028 on a .41 Magnum; or .030 on a .38 Special/.357 Magnum.

 

[HogRider]

I have only used Starline brass since I shoot 45 Colt. I have not had an ejection problem with my Redhawk, but I have no experience with any other brand of brass.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Only reason I don't own a .45 Colt is I haven't found the right revolver chambered for it at the right price. Namely, a New Service Colt or Earlier DA Colt revolver.

Even without hot rodding the 45 Colt is a formidable cartridge.

 

[Tamara]

My DA .45 Colt can't get 'em hung under the star; the ejector rod ain't but barely long enough.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Anybody usin 45 SW (Schoefield) cases in .45 Colt chambered hand ejector guns. ?

IF...the bigger rim didn't cause a new problem, should cure any star/ejection problems.

So many things to try, so little time.

Sam

 

[BluesBear]

If you point the muzzle up before you stroke the ejector rod you'll never have a problem with cases slipping past the extractor, regardless of caliber.

If you point the muzzle down and stroke it either too fast OR too slow you'll probably get one hung sooner or later, regardless of caliber.

Rim size, actually, has very little to do with it. And contrary to popular belief, a longer ejector stoke makes it easier to let one slip past.

 

[WESHOOT2]

R-P cases are a bit 'thin' for 'Ruger-only' loads; Starline and Federal.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special."

It's got the .38 Spl. by almost 30 years, actually. But the .38 Spl. has maintained its popularity a lot longer.

Simply put, it WASN'T popular for a long time.

It was a legacy cartridge, a dying round in a lot of ways.

Few firearms were chambered for it after WW I up to the 1950s, and those that did simply didn't sell all that well.

Were it not for the rise in Cowboy Action Shooting over the last 20 years, it's likely that a LOT of the older cartridges, such as the .32-20, the .44-40, the .38-40, and the .45 Long Colt, that have seen a resurgence in popularity would be functionally obsolete.



Harley,

I really have to wonder about your comment regarding loading the .45 Long Colt. I don't think it has a tinker's chance in hell of being the most popular handloading choice out there when stacked up against rounds like the .45 ACP, the .38 Spl./.357 Mag., and the 9mm.

It may be one of the most ASKED ABOUT, but I seriously doubt that that translates into popularity.

There is no doubt, though, that it is being reloaded a lot more than it was 20 years ago.



Mannlicher,

BLEAT! BLEAT!

I've had one instance of the rim on a .45 Long Colt cartridge slipping under the extractor and hanging up the gun. It was, however, my fault as I was babying extraction and had the muzzle pretty much horizontal.

Given those criteria, I've had that happen with a .38 Spl., which has a much larger rim.

 

[444]

Mike I may easily be wrong on this (like I am on everything else), but it seems to me that CAS only helped the .45 Colt along. It seems like it started coming back before I ever heard of CAS. I always attributed it to the modern handgun designs that allowed the cartridge to be pushed to it's limits. Things like the Ruger Blackhawk, and five shot conversions seemed like they pre-dated the CAS craze but that may have only bee a local thing.

 

[Bacchus]

Why not pick up a 454 and have the option to shoot either that or the 45 LC?

 

[Mike Irwin]

There were handguns chambering the .45 Long Colt post 1950s, such as the revived Colt Peacemaker, the reproductions, and the like.

But it wasn't by any stretch of the imagination truly a popular round.

Believe it or not, what really helped it was...

The .44 Magnum craze.

When people found that they couldn't find .44 Magnums, they went to the next best thing (in their own minds) that they could find, the .45 Long Colt. After all, it had a huge hole in the end of the barrel, so it must be great, right? Then they found out that the power levels of the ammo at that time was something less than spectacular...

Colt did try to introduce a nifty little short-barreled .45 LC 5-shot in the middle to late 1970s, IIRC. It was touted in a couple magazines as the perfect back up gun for a cop... I guess the idea was to compete with the Charter Bull Dog. Unfortunately, it flopped like a fish out of water.

No matter how you cut it, though, the .45 LC is STILL a niche cartridge -- it's biggest niche is the CAS shooters. That's where the majority of all .45 LCs apparently go, and if you look, single-action Colt and S&W style repops comprise about 75% of the caliber's chamberings.

Any way you cut it, the .45 LC is probably as popular now, if not more so, than any time since 1900.

 

[Gary H]

These threads are lots of fun and I always learn something. I have only one .45 L.C., a S&W Mod 25-3. It was manufactured around 1977 and marketed as a 125th Anniversary Edition. Beware, the chambers were made oversized for the barrel used and accuracy suffers. I had to return mine to S&W and pay them for a new cylinder. This is a known problem at S&W over a two year production range. I don't know why they would do this after 125 years. The gun now outperforms me by a large margin.

Anyway, the reason that this gun is popular with reloaders..even for double action, is that you can load over a very large range of velocities/bullet weights. With the Rugers & T/C you can push a 300 grain bullet at 1300 fps. Lyman list one load for a 175gr. going down range at 440fps. I've never loaded anything approaching either of those limits, but it does present possibilities. The large case makes for easy handling and it doesn't blend into the thousands of smaller bits of brass that adorn the grounds at most ranges. In terms of popularity with the reloading community, I suspect that .38/.357mag, .45 ACP and 9mm are at the top of the pack.

 

[uglygun]

Hmmmm, GaryH I have the same gun and it shoots wonders....


Mine is also has just about the tightest lockup I've ever felt on an S&W revolver. How did you measure your chambers to determine they were over size?

Mine simply goes bonkers for 185grn Nosler hollow points. Hopefully it will stay as accurate as it begins to loosen up over time.


I have yet to do any reloading tricks to try to gain additional accuracy out of the gun, been thinking about only partially sizing the cases to see if I could get a better fit between casing and chamber walls. Kinda like neck sizing only for revolvers.

 

[Gary H]

I slugged the chambers and the barrel after varying every load parameter that I could think of. All these revolvers were made with overly large chambers. Mine was out of spec, with regards to their intent. My information with regards to model years came from an old timer at S&W named Gene. He is the guy that handled my gun.