Mike Irwin
Member
Forgot to mention...
One of the guns that I desparately want right now?
An S&W Model 25 with a 4" barrel.
One of the guns that I desparately want right now?
An S&W Model 25 with a 4" barrel.
.45 Long Colt popularity, or lack of?
- Thread starter valnar
- Start date
- Status
Was it the 25-5 that was produced for awhile as a 45LC?
A neighbor of my parents was selling a lot of guns about 6 years back and when i went to go look at the collection the only one I was interested in was a 4 inch barreled 45LC. And that was the ONE gun that wasn't for sale, would have loved to have gotten that thing.
A neighbor of my parents was selling a lot of guns about 6 years back and when i went to go look at the collection the only one I was interested in was a 4 inch barreled 45LC. And that was the ONE gun that wasn't for sale, would have loved to have gotten that thing.
Mike Irwin
Member
Yeah, just like that Joe, you SOB. 
J Miller
Member
Wow!!! There is just way too much mis-information, dis-information, and just plain incorrect information in this thread for me to sort it out.
All I can say is the .45 Colt (no "Long" in the name) is a very popular cartridge. Just because certain groups don't like it, or other groups do doesn't mean anything.
If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago.
The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873.
As for the small rim, causing all sorts of terrible jams and such, that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact.
The facts are, most of the "aledged problems" with the .45 Colt come from people who don't know what they are doing.
Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist. These rims don't cause problems in lever rifles either.
It's popular with a lot of people, not just the CAS shooters.
As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend. The squib loads used in CAS are worthless for anything but CAS, and in recent years many people have come to believe that this class of ammo is the traditional .45 Colt ammo. This couldn't be further from the truth.
I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them.
J
All I can say is the .45 Colt (no "Long" in the name) is a very popular cartridge. Just because certain groups don't like it, or other groups do doesn't mean anything.
If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago.
The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873.
As for the small rim, causing all sorts of terrible jams and such, that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact.
The facts are, most of the "aledged problems" with the .45 Colt come from people who don't know what they are doing.
Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist. These rims don't cause problems in lever rifles either.
It's popular with a lot of people, not just the CAS shooters.
As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend. The squib loads used in CAS are worthless for anything but CAS, and in recent years many people have come to believe that this class of ammo is the traditional .45 Colt ammo. This couldn't be further from the truth.
I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them.
J
Oracle
Member
Wasn't the original .45 Colt load a 255 grain bullet over 40 grains of black powder, propelling said 255 grain projectile at about 950 ft. per second? Sounds pretty heavy-duty to me.
Mike Irwin
Member
"All I can say is the .45 Colt (no "Long" in the name)"
We've had this discussion before. You're wrong. You're right. We're both right. Colt, a long time ago, billed the .45 Colt as the .45 LONG Colt in its advertising.
"If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago."
What is today isn't what always has been, J. Miller. The .45 Long Colt, like the .45-70, has enjoyed a great resurgence in popularity.
50, or even 30, years ago, that was not the case. The cartridge was still loaded, but few guns were manufactured for it.
Many cartridges that haven't been chambered in guns for years are still being manufactured -- .38 S&W, .32 S&W, and .32 Short Colt, are but three examples. Even the .22 WRF sees new production ammo now and again, and there hasn't been a new gun made in that caliber in what, 70 years?
Ammo is still loaded to supply the guns that still exist, even if new guns aren't being chambered.
"The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873."
Ammunition I've deal with, but the statement about continuous production of the guns is, I believe, incorrect.
There was a 17 year gap in production of .45 Colt from the Colt factory, from 1940 (because of WW II production, of course) to 1956.
No Colt Single Action Armies, no New Services.
Smith & Wesson also dropped production of the revolvers chambered in .45 LC around the same time, and didn't pick up production again until 1978.
Ruger didn't pick up production of the .45 LC until sometime in the mid 1960s with the Blackhawk.
I also can't find any indication of importation of .45 LC revolvers until the 1960s, either.
If the .45 LC was so blindingly popular at all times during its production, why wasn't it one of the first calibers to go back into production at Colt and S&W after the war?
Why an 11 year gap for Colt?
Why nearly 30 years for Smith?
Why, also, if it was so popular, did it fail to find its way into a new line-up of double action revolvers until 1978?
As I've said several times previously, and is backed up by the record of its production, the .45 LC spend many many years on the 'still alive, but barely kicking' list.
Its resurgence is largely due to the popularity of 1950s and 1960s TV westerns and the rise of Cowboy Action Shooting.
"that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact."
Not when a number of us have experienced those jams, and they have been written about in numers magazines over the years. Mike Venturino has even mentioned the small rim as being problematic in his writings.
"Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist."
Hum...
You're saying that the rim problem doesn't exist, but then you give a SOLUTION for solving a problem that you say doesn't exist?
Huh?
"As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend."
Hum... How's that? It's a sport that draws attention back to the guns and the cartridges of the day. The more people learn about those guns & cartridges, the more theyre likely to buy those guns and cartridges.
Interesting how how that works, and how there have been more guns made for .45 LC in the past 20 years than there were in its previous 100 years of existence...
"I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them."
Good. You know what you like.
Oh, and the lever guns?
No one chambered a lever gun for the .45 Colt until over 100 years AFTER it was introduced...
Hell, even Colt didn't chamber the .45 LC in its own rifles, the Colt-Burgess lever rifle or the Lightning slide action. Colt chose a Winchester cartridge, the .44-40, for both of those rifles.
Makes you wonder if Colt didn't have problems with the extractors and the .45 LC's small rim...
Look, J.
No one is trashing the .45 Long Colt cartridge. But it's simply not true that the cartridge has always been the be all and end all of handgun rounds in the United States. Like many of the rounds from that time frame it has waxed and waned in popularity with the shooting public.
It's very popular right now, and it should be. It's a great cartridge, just as it was in the old West.
But it wasn't even the be all and end all of cartridges there, either. Colt made nearly as many revolvers in .44-40 as they did in .45 LC.
We've had this discussion before. You're wrong. You're right. We're both right. Colt, a long time ago, billed the .45 Colt as the .45 LONG Colt in its advertising.
"If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago."
What is today isn't what always has been, J. Miller. The .45 Long Colt, like the .45-70, has enjoyed a great resurgence in popularity.
50, or even 30, years ago, that was not the case. The cartridge was still loaded, but few guns were manufactured for it.
Many cartridges that haven't been chambered in guns for years are still being manufactured -- .38 S&W, .32 S&W, and .32 Short Colt, are but three examples. Even the .22 WRF sees new production ammo now and again, and there hasn't been a new gun made in that caliber in what, 70 years?
Ammo is still loaded to supply the guns that still exist, even if new guns aren't being chambered.
"The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873."
Ammunition I've deal with, but the statement about continuous production of the guns is, I believe, incorrect.
There was a 17 year gap in production of .45 Colt from the Colt factory, from 1940 (because of WW II production, of course) to 1956.
No Colt Single Action Armies, no New Services.
Smith & Wesson also dropped production of the revolvers chambered in .45 LC around the same time, and didn't pick up production again until 1978.
Ruger didn't pick up production of the .45 LC until sometime in the mid 1960s with the Blackhawk.
I also can't find any indication of importation of .45 LC revolvers until the 1960s, either.
If the .45 LC was so blindingly popular at all times during its production, why wasn't it one of the first calibers to go back into production at Colt and S&W after the war?
Why an 11 year gap for Colt?
Why nearly 30 years for Smith?
Why, also, if it was so popular, did it fail to find its way into a new line-up of double action revolvers until 1978?
As I've said several times previously, and is backed up by the record of its production, the .45 LC spend many many years on the 'still alive, but barely kicking' list.
Its resurgence is largely due to the popularity of 1950s and 1960s TV westerns and the rise of Cowboy Action Shooting.
"that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact."
Not when a number of us have experienced those jams, and they have been written about in numers magazines over the years. Mike Venturino has even mentioned the small rim as being problematic in his writings.
"Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist."
Hum...
You're saying that the rim problem doesn't exist, but then you give a SOLUTION for solving a problem that you say doesn't exist?
Huh?
"As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend."
Hum... How's that? It's a sport that draws attention back to the guns and the cartridges of the day. The more people learn about those guns & cartridges, the more theyre likely to buy those guns and cartridges.
Interesting how how that works, and how there have been more guns made for .45 LC in the past 20 years than there were in its previous 100 years of existence...
"I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them."
Good. You know what you like.
Oh, and the lever guns?
No one chambered a lever gun for the .45 Colt until over 100 years AFTER it was introduced...
Hell, even Colt didn't chamber the .45 LC in its own rifles, the Colt-Burgess lever rifle or the Lightning slide action. Colt chose a Winchester cartridge, the .44-40, for both of those rifles.
Makes you wonder if Colt didn't have problems with the extractors and the .45 LC's small rim...
Look, J.
No one is trashing the .45 Long Colt cartridge. But it's simply not true that the cartridge has always been the be all and end all of handgun rounds in the United States. Like many of the rounds from that time frame it has waxed and waned in popularity with the shooting public.
It's very popular right now, and it should be. It's a great cartridge, just as it was in the old West.
But it wasn't even the be all and end all of cartridges there, either. Colt made nearly as many revolvers in .44-40 as they did in .45 LC.
Mike Irwin
Member
Oracle,
Yes. The original commercial loadings for the .45 LC were thumpers, as were the original BP loadings for the .44-40, which had a few more foot pounds of energy.
Yes. The original commercial loadings for the .45 LC were thumpers, as were the original BP loadings for the .44-40, which had a few more foot pounds of energy.
BluesBear
member
Sure the WAS a problem with thin rims on the original black powder .45 Colt loads. (I'd wager that Mike probably has some in his collection that he might be able to photograsph for us.) That's why there were no repeating rifles chambered for it back in "the old days". Plus the fact that the oroginal loads were "balloon head" cases and rims were actually pretty easy to rip off.
The Army knew of this problem, and acknowledged it when they went back to using the .45 Colt in 1909 after the Moro Insurrection proved what a whimp the .38 Long Colt (yes the .38 was called long) cartridge was. The rims were so big on the 1909 ammo that you could only load THREE in a Single Action Army.
If you compare modern ammunition solid head ammo (since around 1930) with the original turn of the century black powder ammo you will see todays rim is noticably bigger.
TV westerns have been credited with the renewed interest in Single Action revolvers in general. This is not a new idea. Sure there weren't many NEW revolvers made in .45 Colt in the 1960s and 1970s but there were quite a few used ones on the market. If you go back abd read the popular guns magazines of that time, you'll see countless acticles on and questions from readers about how to convert revolvers such as the S&W Model 28 to .45 Colt.
The fact is that Colt didn't produce ANY double action revolver in a caliber larger that .357 after WWII. As I recall there were a number of S&W model 1950 target revolvers factory produced in .45 Colt. After WWII nearly every revolver caliber was taking a back seat to the .357 Magnum. It was the darling of the era. Newer, bigger better and all of that stuff.
As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it. Not really a need to reload for .38 or .357. Until lately there just wasn't much available except for the 255 grain lead bullet loads. I remember the stir created when Federal introduced a lead hollow point in .45 Colt.
I remember a time when the only new revolver being produced in .44 Special was the Charter Arms Bulldog. Hells Bells I remeber when there were NO revolvers being made in .44 Special. Now look around. DiD Cowboy Action Shooting revive the .44 Special? No. .45 Colt? No.
CASS did revive the .44 Russian, the .38 Long Colt and the .32-20.
However even CASS can't resusitate the .41 Long Colt cartridge.
The Army knew of this problem, and acknowledged it when they went back to using the .45 Colt in 1909 after the Moro Insurrection proved what a whimp the .38 Long Colt (yes the .38 was called long) cartridge was. The rims were so big on the 1909 ammo that you could only load THREE in a Single Action Army.
If you compare modern ammunition solid head ammo (since around 1930) with the original turn of the century black powder ammo you will see todays rim is noticably bigger.
TV westerns have been credited with the renewed interest in Single Action revolvers in general. This is not a new idea. Sure there weren't many NEW revolvers made in .45 Colt in the 1960s and 1970s but there were quite a few used ones on the market. If you go back abd read the popular guns magazines of that time, you'll see countless acticles on and questions from readers about how to convert revolvers such as the S&W Model 28 to .45 Colt.
The fact is that Colt didn't produce ANY double action revolver in a caliber larger that .357 after WWII. As I recall there were a number of S&W model 1950 target revolvers factory produced in .45 Colt. After WWII nearly every revolver caliber was taking a back seat to the .357 Magnum. It was the darling of the era. Newer, bigger better and all of that stuff.
As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it. Not really a need to reload for .38 or .357. Until lately there just wasn't much available except for the 255 grain lead bullet loads. I remember the stir created when Federal introduced a lead hollow point in .45 Colt.
I remember a time when the only new revolver being produced in .44 Special was the Charter Arms Bulldog. Hells Bells I remeber when there were NO revolvers being made in .44 Special. Now look around. DiD Cowboy Action Shooting revive the .44 Special? No. .45 Colt? No.
CASS did revive the .44 Russian, the .38 Long Colt and the .32-20.
However even CASS can't resusitate the .41 Long Colt cartridge.
Stainz
Member
My first DA revolver was purchased to fire my new-favorite, the .45 Colt. It was a Ruger SRH in .454 Casull, the ultimate .45 Colt descendent. My first S&W was a shocker from my wife - an S&W 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt. It is by far the smoothest firearm I own - a real joy to see, hold, and shoot. I have other N-frames, including a near identical 629 Mountain Gun in .44 Magnum, but none as smooth. That SRH is right up there with the S&W's - it's GP-100 lockwork makes it quite smooth - stopped me from buying a RedHawk. That 625MG is much more 'packable', with it's tapered tube, partial lug, chamfered cylinder, wood grips (S&W 21991 square-butt conversion), and bright finish - a dated look, except for the SS, to be sure.
I have also grown fond of the original mass-marketed centerfire revolver cartridge, the S&W .44 Russian, which pre-dated the .45 Colt by two years. Unfortunately, it's 35yr younger brother, the slightly longer .44 S&W Special, has never been very popular. In fact, S&W only offers one so-chambered revolver now, the 396 Mountain Lite, having dropped two others, the 296 & 696, in the last two years. The .44 Magnum chambers will take both the Special and Russians, albeit necessitating a good cleaning before a longer cartridge should be chambered.
Given a choice, I would always take the .45 Colt. It can be loaded ~200ft lb of KE for comfortable plinking with 200-255gr LRNFP's and up over 1,000ft lb for significant hunting lead (... or over 2100 ft lb for factory .454 Casull). I would have no problem loading anything in my Ruger 5.5" SS Bisley - I'd be more choosey with the 625MG - I just like it too well to risk 'hurting' it! I have shot thousands of rounds SA in BH's and Bisley's - and even more in that SRH and 625MG - and a Puma M1892 SS lever gun. I have never had an ejection problem, save some soft brass factory Hornady and MagTech .454's, but that is another story. My .45 Colt brass is 95+% Starline - most bought loaded (new) from Georgia Arms - and I now reload with a Dillon 550B - bought solely to reload .45 Colts. I had over 2700 empties I had saved, no telling how many I had given away, when I elected to 'roll my own'. I know several others who have started reloading - originally, as I did, for .45 Colt. My next revolver purchase will be another .45 Colt. It is old... but still viable today, whether PD, hunting, or, as I do, just plinking away!
Stainz
PS I won't ever blaspheme the .44 Russian - too many folks used it for good and evil, despite it's slightly lower 'power' than the .45 Colt. The usual 246gr lead of .430" was ahead of ~30gr of blackpowder - and used by sharpshooters (Annie Oakley, Buffaloe Bill, etc). Additionally, it was the first top-break S&W load - and could be reloaded and fired many times in the time a Peacemaker took to be reloaded. Interesting round... but try to find one - or a firearm so-chambered!
I have also grown fond of the original mass-marketed centerfire revolver cartridge, the S&W .44 Russian, which pre-dated the .45 Colt by two years. Unfortunately, it's 35yr younger brother, the slightly longer .44 S&W Special, has never been very popular. In fact, S&W only offers one so-chambered revolver now, the 396 Mountain Lite, having dropped two others, the 296 & 696, in the last two years. The .44 Magnum chambers will take both the Special and Russians, albeit necessitating a good cleaning before a longer cartridge should be chambered.
Given a choice, I would always take the .45 Colt. It can be loaded ~200ft lb of KE for comfortable plinking with 200-255gr LRNFP's and up over 1,000ft lb for significant hunting lead (... or over 2100 ft lb for factory .454 Casull). I would have no problem loading anything in my Ruger 5.5" SS Bisley - I'd be more choosey with the 625MG - I just like it too well to risk 'hurting' it! I have shot thousands of rounds SA in BH's and Bisley's - and even more in that SRH and 625MG - and a Puma M1892 SS lever gun. I have never had an ejection problem, save some soft brass factory Hornady and MagTech .454's, but that is another story. My .45 Colt brass is 95+% Starline - most bought loaded (new) from Georgia Arms - and I now reload with a Dillon 550B - bought solely to reload .45 Colts. I had over 2700 empties I had saved, no telling how many I had given away, when I elected to 'roll my own'. I know several others who have started reloading - originally, as I did, for .45 Colt. My next revolver purchase will be another .45 Colt. It is old... but still viable today, whether PD, hunting, or, as I do, just plinking away!
Stainz
PS I won't ever blaspheme the .44 Russian - too many folks used it for good and evil, despite it's slightly lower 'power' than the .45 Colt. The usual 246gr lead of .430" was ahead of ~30gr of blackpowder - and used by sharpshooters (Annie Oakley, Buffaloe Bill, etc). Additionally, it was the first top-break S&W load - and could be reloaded and fired many times in the time a Peacemaker took to be reloaded. Interesting round... but try to find one - or a firearm so-chambered!
Mike Irwin
Member
"I'd wager that Mike probably has some in his collection that he might be able to photograsph for us."
You'd win. Not sure of the age of them, though.
I do have a Benet-primed .45 S&W, but have never been able to track down a Benet-primed .45 LC.
"As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it."
You had to, if you want anything other than 255-gr. bullet at 900 fps. You still have to if you want to be able to afford to shoot.
Ultimately, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the "revival" track for the .45 LC.
I don't think it's a coincidence that prior to the rise of CASS in this country there were what, perhaps 4 or 5 makers of SAA revolvers that chambered the round. Now, though? That situation is a LOT different.
You'd win. Not sure of the age of them, though.
I do have a Benet-primed .45 S&W, but have never been able to track down a Benet-primed .45 LC.
"As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it."
You had to, if you want anything other than 255-gr. bullet at 900 fps. You still have to if you want to be able to afford to shoot.
Ultimately, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the "revival" track for the .45 LC.
I don't think it's a coincidence that prior to the rise of CASS in this country there were what, perhaps 4 or 5 makers of SAA revolvers that chambered the round. Now, though? That situation is a LOT different.
Thanks to all the responses of my thread. I need to change topics slightly.
I don't reload and never will. So it seems like I should invest in a Single action .38/357 instead as it indeed would be cheaper.
If I decide to get into CAS, is that an acceptable caliber?
-Robert
I don't reload and never will. So it seems like I should invest in a Single action .38/357 instead as it indeed would be cheaper.
If I decide to get into CAS, is that an acceptable caliber?
-Robert
mtnbkr
Member
That's what drove my dad to reload. You can't find cheap (<$15) 45Colt ammo anywhere.
Chris
Mike Irwin
Member
"I don't reload and never will."
Valnar,
I have to ask why?
You can get into reloading for a single caliber VERY cheaply, depending on how you approach it.
Valnar,
I have to ask why?
You can get into reloading for a single caliber VERY cheaply, depending on how you approach it.
mtnbkr
Member
Definately on the first statement.
Regarding CAS, afaik, you can use 38/357. I know people that say they do.
Chris
Mike Irwin
Member
.38 Spl. you can use, as I've seen Cowboy loads for the .38 Spl. at gunshows.
Hey, Mike-
Now you've got me curious.
If I WERE to start reloading .45 ONLY, how cheap is cheap????
I will say here I never have done any, and don't have the patience to perform klutz-prone manual disciplines repeatedly; which is why.
Is there an "efficient" and quick AND not expensive set-up to utilize???
Tell me more......
Now you've got me curious.
If I WERE to start reloading .45 ONLY, how cheap is cheap????
I will say here I never have done any, and don't have the patience to perform klutz-prone manual disciplines repeatedly; which is why.
Is there an "efficient" and quick AND not expensive set-up to utilize???
Tell me more......
BluesBear
member
Dillon Square Deal B #B39-20051
Comes with factory adjusted dies.
see it here
$277.95
You will NEVER regret it.
Comes with factory adjusted dies.
see it here
$277.95
You will NEVER regret it.
BluesBear
member
Citizen,
I started reloading in 1976 so I could afford to feed my Python & Mark IV Series 70. I started out on a Lyman Spar-T turret press. I figured it cost me about $500 back then to get started (I was making a whopping $3.50 per hour back then) and I still had to do every operation one step at a time. It was time consuming but I was amazed as to how easy it was. Even more it was FUN!
Trying different loads with all of those different bullets. It all just made shooting that much more fun.
Right now I am saving up for a Dillon XL650. It will be my Christmas present to myself. It would have been my Birthday present but a S&W 1917 got in the way.
I have plenty of Will Power.
I am just lacking in Won't Power.
I started reloading in 1976 so I could afford to feed my Python & Mark IV Series 70. I started out on a Lyman Spar-T turret press. I figured it cost me about $500 back then to get started (I was making a whopping $3.50 per hour back then) and I still had to do every operation one step at a time. It was time consuming but I was amazed as to how easy it was. Even more it was FUN!
Trying different loads with all of those different bullets. It all just made shooting that much more fun.
Right now I am saving up for a Dillon XL650. It will be my Christmas present to myself. It would have been my Birthday present but a S&W 1917 got in the way.
I have plenty of Will Power.
I am just lacking in Won't Power.
Mike Irwin
Member
Sorry, Citizen, didn't mean to ignore you.
OK, if you want to reload cheap, but functional, ammo you're looking at using Lee products.
Not the best in the world, but they're functional, servicable, and a good value.
If you want to go as inexpensively as possible, and don't mind that the production rate is going to be low as hell, you can use a Lee Loader.
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=dies-p4.html#LeeLoader
$20 list price.
All you need to add to that is a block of wood or a mallet to tap the cases into the die and seat the primer and bullet.
I turned out a lot of ammo over the years on these tools.
Add to that powder ($15 to $20), primers ($2.50 per hundred), cases (no clue how much they are, but say $8 per 100, and they get cheaper each time you reuse them), and bullets (probably about $32 per 500 for lead), and you can see that you can get into reloading pretty cheaply.
If you want to take a step up to a press, then you can get one of the Lee kits.
Here are some kit options, including the potential to get a free intro loading press. Scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page...
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=rlpress2.html
A lot of people say a lot of bad things about Lee products, but I've loaded thousands of rounds of ammo on a Lee Turret press, using Lee dies and a Lee powder measure.
It's not flashy, but it works, and works well.
So, you see, you don't have to spend a lot to get into reloading.
OK, if you want to reload cheap, but functional, ammo you're looking at using Lee products.
Not the best in the world, but they're functional, servicable, and a good value.
If you want to go as inexpensively as possible, and don't mind that the production rate is going to be low as hell, you can use a Lee Loader.
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=dies-p4.html#LeeLoader
$20 list price.
All you need to add to that is a block of wood or a mallet to tap the cases into the die and seat the primer and bullet.
I turned out a lot of ammo over the years on these tools.
Add to that powder ($15 to $20), primers ($2.50 per hundred), cases (no clue how much they are, but say $8 per 100, and they get cheaper each time you reuse them), and bullets (probably about $32 per 500 for lead), and you can see that you can get into reloading pretty cheaply.
If you want to take a step up to a press, then you can get one of the Lee kits.
Here are some kit options, including the potential to get a free intro loading press. Scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page...
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=rlpress2.html
A lot of people say a lot of bad things about Lee products, but I've loaded thousands of rounds of ammo on a Lee Turret press, using Lee dies and a Lee powder measure.
It's not flashy, but it works, and works well.
So, you see, you don't have to spend a lot to get into reloading.
Jim March
Member
If I may interject:
While the 45LC was making a slow comeback starting in the '60s, one thing that really advanced the round was the 1973 introduction of the 45LC in the Ruger "New Model" SA Blackhawk (aka "two screw"). It wasn't long after that that people like Linebaugh realized that this gun had just re-written the book on what the old warhorse 45 could do. Built on the same frame as the 44Mag *with the same metallurgy* (unlike S&W's N-frame 45LCs), the Rugers could equal or exceed the 44Mag but with better recoil handling and a heavier slug.
The same people buying those guns for hunting/bear defense also wanted milder practice/defense loads, esp. once the Redhawk in 45LC shipped with the same strength. That lead to the Winchester Silvertip as a good self defense round, others followed, and now with some very careful shopping, you CAN avoid handloading completely and not get completely creamed on ammo costs (no worse than 44Mag, IMHO).
SASS/CAS came along and "sealed the deal" on the LC's revival but it was in progress sooner and I think Ruger's role cannot be overestimated.
Sidenote: I call it the "45LC" for two reasons - one, there IS some historical grounds for doing so to distinguish from Schofield fodder and two, to separate it at the modern gun shop counter from 45ACP fodder! Nowdays, most people think the "long" is to differenciate from ACP. Just ask for "Colt 45" ammo at WallyWorld, and they'll hand you a box of that short rimless crap.
While the 45LC was making a slow comeback starting in the '60s, one thing that really advanced the round was the 1973 introduction of the 45LC in the Ruger "New Model" SA Blackhawk (aka "two screw"). It wasn't long after that that people like Linebaugh realized that this gun had just re-written the book on what the old warhorse 45 could do. Built on the same frame as the 44Mag *with the same metallurgy* (unlike S&W's N-frame 45LCs), the Rugers could equal or exceed the 44Mag but with better recoil handling and a heavier slug.
The same people buying those guns for hunting/bear defense also wanted milder practice/defense loads, esp. once the Redhawk in 45LC shipped with the same strength. That lead to the Winchester Silvertip as a good self defense round, others followed, and now with some very careful shopping, you CAN avoid handloading completely and not get completely creamed on ammo costs (no worse than 44Mag, IMHO).
SASS/CAS came along and "sealed the deal" on the LC's revival but it was in progress sooner and I think Ruger's role cannot be overestimated.
Sidenote: I call it the "45LC" for two reasons - one, there IS some historical grounds for doing so to distinguish from Schofield fodder and two, to separate it at the modern gun shop counter from 45ACP fodder! Nowdays, most people think the "long" is to differenciate from ACP. Just ask for "Colt 45" ammo at WallyWorld, and they'll hand you a box of that short rimless crap
.
Stainz
Member
I tired of the $22/box local price of .45 Colt plinkers - the excellent GA Arms all-new ammo was less, but took planning to keep in stock. Before I got 3/4 of the way through the 2700+ empties I had saved, the Dillon 550B and accessories were paid for. Now, every 500 rounds costs me <$40.
I just added .357/.38 to my capabilities - ~$85 for the 4-piece Lee dies and Dillon caliber kit, powder funnel, and toolhead. I bought a 500rd box of 158gr LSWC's at the local store for ~$15. Add 1/2 box of primers and 1/4 # of TiteGroup powder ~$12 and those 500 rounds will cost me 5.4 cents/each... add the cost of the new caliber goodies, and the cost is still $.224/round - about what Wally World ammo runs - and future .38's will be $.054/each. The economy appealed to me... and I swore at those reloading goodies tables at the gun shows for years - they could have had more guns for sale in their place! Now I look for them... go figure. I enjoy 'fine-tuning' my loads to my requirements, too. Sure, producing 1,000 rounds at one session does get monotonous - but even a modicum of common sense and attention will prevent problems. After ~10,000 rounds, I finally had a squib - a projectile stuck in my cylinder/forcing cone preventing the cylinder from turning. Forced back into the case by a brass rod, I took the case home only to find some unburned powder in the case - poor primer? In 1,000 CCI Blazer .44 Spcl factory ammo, I had 2 ftf and one split case. I like my reloads... in fact, it seems I shoot to reload now!
Stainz
I just added .357/.38 to my capabilities - ~$85 for the 4-piece Lee dies and Dillon caliber kit, powder funnel, and toolhead. I bought a 500rd box of 158gr LSWC's at the local store for ~$15. Add 1/2 box of primers and 1/4 # of TiteGroup powder ~$12 and those 500 rounds will cost me 5.4 cents/each... add the cost of the new caliber goodies, and the cost is still $.224/round - about what Wally World ammo runs - and future .38's will be $.054/each. The economy appealed to me... and I swore at those reloading goodies tables at the gun shows for years - they could have had more guns for sale in their place! Now I look for them... go figure. I enjoy 'fine-tuning' my loads to my requirements, too. Sure, producing 1,000 rounds at one session does get monotonous - but even a modicum of common sense and attention will prevent problems. After ~10,000 rounds, I finally had a squib - a projectile stuck in my cylinder/forcing cone preventing the cylinder from turning. Forced back into the case by a brass rod, I took the case home only to find some unburned powder in the case - poor primer? In 1,000 CCI Blazer .44 Spcl factory ammo, I had 2 ftf and one split case. I like my reloads... in fact, it seems I shoot to reload now!
Stainz
mtnbkr
Member
Another way to get into loading cheap is the Lee Handpress. Pricewise, it's between the Turret (Excellent low cost press btw) and the Lee Loader. That's how I got my dad hooked. I bought him a Handpress and 45Cot dies so he could do some of the loading while watching TV (sizing, priming, and crimping).
It worked. After using that for a few months, he realized the benefit of loading and moved to a Turret press. Now, he can use the hand press at the range to try new loads and test them immediately (outdoor range in the country...).
Chris
It worked. After using that for a few months, he realized the benefit of loading and moved to a Turret press. Now, he can use the hand press at the range to try new loads and test them immediately (outdoor range in the country...).
Chris
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