.454 Casull H110

[Dunkelheit]

I want to load some .454 Casull rounds with a Sierra 240gr JHP Bullet and CCI SR Primers. Hodgdon has only Data for FA Bullets and Winchester SR Primers on their website.

Id like to start 10% below the recommended starting loads with this unknown combination. Good Idea? Or should i stick with the Hodgdon data?

 

[kelbro]

Do not reduce H110 loads.

 

[7075-T7]

+1000

From the Hodgdon website

"Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%."

 

[Dunkelheit]

Thx. I´ll keep close to Hodgdon Data.

 

[joecil]

I loaded some 300 gr FA a few days ago using 30 gr of Lil'Gun with really good results. Lil'Gun min is 29 gr and max is 31 gr. by the way behind a 300 gr Jacketed bullet.

The main problem is with using the FA data would really be the O.A.L. would probably be a bit different of course that assumes they bullets weight is the same. The FA is a JFP with a soft lead tip. I have both the 300 gr and 260 gr FA but wasn't aware they made a 240 gr however.

 

[gamestalker]

Never reduce H110 or 296 to below published data. It behaves erratically when it is reduced, and actually performs very well when it is used from mid range and up. Of course, always start with low end published start data, and work up, as with any new component or cartridge combination.

And as for OAL, use a firm roll crimp in the canelure, OAL is not at all a consideration with this type of cartridge / bullet.

Be prepared for full tilt magnum performance with H110. It is pretty much the big dog, when referring to magnum wheel gun powders.

GS

 

[RealGun]

Explain why small rifle primers will be okay here. It seems clearly an application for large pistol magnum primers LPM.

 

[Sport45]

LPM primers won't fit in the SR primer pocket of a .454 Casull.

I think the Casull uses small primer pockets to leave more meat in the base for strength.

 

[50 Shooter]

A standard small rifle primer is fine, perfect ignition every time. Take the advice given on H110 and hold on! I loaded some 405gr bullets for my Raging Bull, I shot 5 rounds as fast as I could. Had to put it down for awhile, those actually hurt! But damn they were a handful and fun.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think the Casull uses small primer pockets to leave more meat in the base for strength.

I wonder why the .460 uses large rifle primers then....


In large volume cases like the .454 and .460, magnum primers are not needed for consistent ignition of H110/W296 like they are in the smaller cased .357 and many manuals reflect this. I still use 'em tho........

 

[RealGun]

H110 calls for magnum primers (LPM) in 45 Colt "Ruger only" loads. I need to buy some for my Redhawk heavy loads.

 

[Sport45]

I wonder why the .460 uses large rifle primers then....

To make Cassul look like a fool?

H110 calls for magnum primers (LPM) in 45 Colt "Ruger only" loads. I need to buy some for my Redhawk heavy loads.

Definately use LPM for those. And don't try to load any less powder than called for in Hodgdon's load guide or you may still get spotty ignition.

 

[Dunkelheit]

I never had an issue with small rifle standard primers in the .454 Casull. Wouldn´t the use of small rifle magnum primes affect the pressure of the load?

 

[Lost Sheep]

One uses small primers vs large primers because that it the size the brass manufacturers made the primer pocket. Or, in other words, because they will fit and anything else won't fit. Same reason you use a 5/8" wrench on a 5/8" nut rather than a 3/4" wrench.

One uses a rifle primer rather than a pistol primer is that rifles run at higher pressures than pistols/handguns (50,000 psi or so vs 20,000 psi or so). The higher pressure of the rifle rounds have the potential to blow out a pistol primer. The stronger primer cup metal needs a harder firing pin strike (as from a rifle striker) vs the less robust firing pin strike provided by most handguns.

One uses magnum primers vs standard primers if one is using a charge of powder that requires the longer ignition flame of the primer compound manufacturers put in the magnum primers. Either because the powder is hard to ignite by its nature or the quantity of powder in the case makes it hard to ignite.

That appears to cover all 8 mathematical combinations, except for one:

The height of a primer (or depth of the primer pocket) of small rifle primers is slightly more than the height of a small pistol primers (if I recall correctly). Diameters of Large or small primers are the same whether they are for "rifle" or "pistol". (more edit: That is, large pistol primers are the same diameter as large rifle primers and small pistol primers are the same diameter as small rifle primers.)

My advice: Follow the recipes found in published loading manuals.

Lost Sheep

edit: Correction. buck460XVR caught my mistake (Thank you): He is right in post 17. My original statement "Diameters of Large or small primers are the same whether they are named 'large' or 'small'." is complete nonsense and absolutely incorrect. I just blundered and did not catch the impossibility in proofreading.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I never had an issue with small rifle standard primers in the .454 Casull. Wouldn´t the use of small rifle magnum primes affect the pressure of the load?

Yes.

But it doesn't matter that Magnum primers theoretically will cause a higher pressure than a similarly formulated standard primer. This rule takes precedence over all others:

Whenever you change any component, start the working up of charges from scratch.

Lost Sheep

 

[RealGun]

Reading elsewhere reveals that the case head is thicker, requiring the thicker primer.

 

[buck460XVR]

Diameters of Large or small primers are the same whether they are named "large" or "small".

I tend to disagree. I can easily spot the difference in SP and LP .45ACP cases.



Here are the standard diameters of major primer types....

0.175" (4.45 mm) diameter small pistol primers, and a thicker or stronger metal cup small rifle version for use with higher pressure loadings in weapons with heavy firing pin impact.
0.209" (5.31 mm) diameter primers for shotgun shells and modern inline muzzleloaders, using a Boxer-type primer factory-assembled inside a tapered, flanged brass cup.
0.210" (5.33 mm) diameter large rifle primers, and a thinner or softer metal cup large pistol version for use with lower pressure loadings in weapons with light firing pin impact.
0.315" (8.00 mm) diameter .50 BMG primers, used for the .50 Browning Machine Gun cartridge and derivatives

 

[buck460XVR]

Reading elsewhere reveals that the case head is thicker, requiring the thicker primer.

I believe it has more to do with the high pressures produced. Same reason that the .460 was changed from LP to LR as the thinner/softer cups were prone to being ruptured from the pressure.

 

[RealGun]

A classic chicken or the egg question.

 

[Clark]

Where did my post go about the reality of reduced loads of H110 in 45 Colt or 454 Csasull?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Where did my post go about the reality of reduced loads of H110 in 45 Colt or 454 Csasull?

I kind of doubt it was successfully posted, or if it was, it got deleted right away. My evidence for this is that there are no gaps in the numbering of the existing posts. In the past, when posts have disappeared, the gap remains, if I recall correctly.

Mystery. Can you re-post it?

Lost Sheep

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Maybe you hit the wrong button and didn't post it.

 

[shinyroks]

I wonder why the .460 uses large rifle primers then....


In large volume cases like the .454 and .460, magnum primers are not needed for consistent ignition of H110/W296 like they are in the smaller cased .357 and many manuals reflect this. I still use 'em tho........

I believe that the 460 is actually a lower pressure cartridge than the 454. Using a small rifle primer gives you a stronger cup (theoretically...)

 

[Clark]

OK, maybe I made a mistake.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have experimented with 454 H110 over loads and 45 Colt H110 reduced loads:

1) 20 gr H110 250 gr XTP 45 Colt brass large pistol primer, 1.6" OAL, strong roll crimp, shoots ok
2) 21 gr H110 250 gr XTP 45 Colt brass large pistol primer, 1.6" OAL, no crimp, primer goes off but powder does not burn.\
3) 40 gr H110 405 gr cast, CCI 200 large rifle primer, 2.75" OAL, cratered primer
4) 40 gr H110 405 gr cast, CCI 200 large rifle primer, 2.1" OAL, cratered and top hat primer, .004" ~ .005" case head expansion, case starting to crack, recoil broke the Walnut wrist of the 410 shotgun firing this round.

What does it all mean?
1) The idea that H110 loads cannot be reduced is an over simplification, as seen with the 56% charge that works.
2) The small rifle primer pocket in the 454 Casull case head design was not needed for functionality, as seen with 200% load that works with the large primer pocket.

 

[buck460XVR]

I believe that the 460 is actually a lower pressure cartridge than the 454. Using a small rifle primer gives you a stronger cup (theoretically...)

No.....the .454 and .460 both have a SAAMI max pressure of 65,000 PSI. So much for that theory.