45acp deer load

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by milsurpguy, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. milsurpguy

    milsurpguy Member

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    Because the 9mm post was so much fun right?
    I inherited a 45acp camp carbine, which takes 1911 mags. So the rounds have to fit in a 1911 mag. It has the full 16 inch barrel. My benefactor did complain about 20 years ago that a 16 inch barrel on a 45acp is stupid and that he should cut it down. So I may do that.
    Accuracy was unexpected. With my worst cast lead mixed head stamp range fodder I was getting holes touching at 25 yards so the accuracy is there.

    Why? Just because. Maybe the antis ban everything and all we can have is pistol cal long guns. Maybe my 1894 and k98 are assault rifles and get banned, for reasons. Maybe it's total hunger games and all we can dare hunt with is suppressed subsonic guns, or bow and arrows... Well my shoulders are messed up so bows and arrows are kind of out.
    I'll definitely use it on coyotes.

    The gun has been modded, today I replaced the original maybe 9lb 25 year old warn out recoil spring with a new 21lb spring and put in a fresh bolt buffer.
    Going for subsonic out of the rife, so I'm limited to 230gr and up.
    The best powder I have on hand for a carbine loads that stands out is accurate No.7
    I'm more likely to be using jacketed bullets.
    My speer manual has a nearly 11gr load for a .451'' 225 grain revolver bullet. A 230gr probably about the same.
    I have found a few +P loads over the years for AA7, add 1 to 1.5gr depending on the bullet.
    Bluedot looks pretty good too, maybe even better than AA7 but I'm running low on it. I can load develop with it, but will have to wait till the plandemic is over before I can get another pound and load up a few boxes.
    I'm also interested in hearing how the 45acp's ultimate stopping power (aside from 10mm) is inappropriate for deer.

    What are your favorite hot and heavy 45acp 1911 or carbine loads?

    For 5.5 inch barrel 1911 I have always loaded unique and more recently general dynamics cbi as I had tried slower powders but there didn't appear to be any advantage to loading 50% more powder in a 5 to 5.5 inch barrel gun to get the same or a little more velocity.
     
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  2. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I don't have chrono numbers but in the past I loaded up some pretty stout 230gr loads with both Longshot and CFE-P (using book data)
    Out of the longer barrel Loudshot;) (Longshot) might work really well.
     
  3. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Be advised that shortening the barrel to under 16" makes it a NFA weapon.
    That said, my favorite 45ACP load, for guns that will feed it, is either the Lyman 454424 or RCBS 45-255 MY and 5.5 grains of Unique. Not super fast but accurate and penetrates deep and straight. Ive tried it on dry 2 X 4s and a couple of deer carcasses found on our land the day after season hit by neighboring hunters but not followed. Penetrated 100% side to side on both chest and shoulders.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  4. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    I think a long .45 with a rim case and 350gn flex tip would make a great hunting round

    a .45 like this!

    10855774_01_s_w_460_magnum_revolver_packag_640.jpg
     
  5. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    Going this route would be a much better idea. I like CFE-P in 45.
    Look at the highest velocity pistol load and it will be the same for the carbine.
    I would run a semi wadcutter at plus p pressure. Keep it inside 50 yards and act like a bow hunter.
     
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  6. v8stang289

    v8stang289 Member

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    230xtp with ~7.5gn power pistol is a pretty quick standard load. Does mid 900's in a 5" 1911 and over 1000fps in an 8" AR45. As slow as power pistol is i'd expect over 1100 in a 16" barrel
    Not sure if the camp carbine is up to it, but If you want to venture into low end 45 super territory I load 8.4gn power pistol under a 230xtp. It does 1030 in a Glock 21.
     
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  7. derek45

    derek45 Member

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    45ACP works very well for big midwestern deer.

    A speer 230gr JHP Gold Dot, with a max load of Unique, or Power Pistol works great.

    Factory Winchester Ranger 230gr +p make an impressive exit hole, like you could drive a golf ball thru it.

    .
     
  8. 35 Whelen
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    35 Whelen Contributing Member

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    Out of a carbine, you don't need +P loads and you don't need an expanding bullet, just a bullet that will penetrate sufficiently and make a nice hole.

    These are the lungs out of a buck I shot season before last with a 288 gr. cast SWC fired from my Uberti 45 Colt. MV averaged 983 fps and he was 41 yds. out so impact velocity would've been about 950 fps. Obviously the non-expanding bullet did plenty of damage.

    4MpgEJJl.jpg

    Even at a little under 1000 fps, the load shoots plenty flat from a revolver to make hits to 75 yds. fairly easy.

    Years ago I tested some commercial cast 255 gr. SWC's in my Colt 45 ACP. As I recall the load was 9.0 grs. of Blue Dot and the load averaged 935 fps from the 5" barrel, so from a 16" carbine barrel I'd expect another 150 fps or so. This would probably be a good load in a carbine.

    35W
     
  9. horsey300

    horsey300 Member

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    The stumper for me is the subsonic.... I'd dearly love to launch a 200 gr Barnes outta that lil carbine with longshot, cfe, or similar powders for a smidge more speed, this would make a heckuva deerslayer. In the 1911, I'd go 230 xtp.
     
  10. Dunross

    Dunross Member

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    A 45acp has the case capacity to load slower powders to make the most efficient use of a carbine barrel while still remaining a load one can safely fire in a semi-auto pistol.

    I favor large meplats and over 200grs. I have some "bowling pin" bullets from Magnus that come in at 215grs. Any powder that you like (I'd use Unique) so that it's stepping out of the carbine barrel at 900fps or better would get the job done for close range shots. Wouldn't take it past 100yds and the closer the better.
     
  11. Kaldor

    Kaldor Member

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    I wouldnt go heavy bullets to be honest. I would shoot a Hornady 185 XTP with something like CFE Pistol behind it. CFE Pistol will push a 185 to 1100+fps safely from a 1911. From a 16" barrel, that can really take advantage of the longer burning powder so youll probably see 1400+fps. Thats a smoking load that will have no issues with a deer.

    I run 185 XTPs at 1100fps with 7.8gr of CFE Pistol. It shoots like a laser, and is a handful, but from a carbine, it will really shine.
     
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  12. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    bro, that’s gross

    going to puke
     
  13. Barbaroja

    Barbaroja Member

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    I sure hope your kidding mark
     
  14. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I have a 45 ACP High Point carbine. I got it during an itch I had for something different. I have 2 other 45 ACPs and have found the same handloads I use in my 1911 work quite well in my HP. My 200 gr, LSWC gave me 2" groups at about 30 yards and my 230 FMJ "Just in case ammo", gave me consistent hits on soda cans out to 50+ yards. I could probably improve these figures and I haven't run any over my chrony yet, but my 1911 230 gr. loads run average 855 fps, so I'm looking at about 100 fps more from the longer carbine barrel. I don't think I'd use my HP for hunting, not doubting the cartridge/gun, I just have better choice in a small rifle (44 Magnum model 92 levergun)
     
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  15. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    Cast Keith style bullet hands down the best in pistol calibers for hunting.

    I have a carbine conversion for a 1911 and it’s a joy to shoot 200gr swc bullets. I use 460R for hunting in it, but some heavier 45acp would do the job.
     
  16. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    In theory, the .45ACP is based on the .45 Army revolver cartridge - a.k.a., .45 Colt - and most any bullet for the Colt Army cartridge will work in the Colt Auto cartridge. The thing is, except for carbines like the T/C break-action, not many hunting-style carbines exist for the ACP. I made a faux De Lisle carbine many moons ago using a No.I Mk.III* action and a Thompson barrel - there were sizeable differences in velocity between it and a standard-issue 1911A1, IIRC. As stated, many moons ago and I lost all of that loading data not long after.

    Have you done any experiments to determine if there is any loss of velocity from the blowback action - locked by inertia - versus a bolt action or other mechanically-locking action type? Also, have you experimented with rifle powders vs. handgun powders? In a handgun I would expect to see very little difference if any between 2400 and Blue Dot or something like PowerPistol but, in a carbine, I'm guessing it may make using slower burn rifle less worth while. In a .44Mag bolt action carbine, or a .44-40 lever action carbine, switching to the slower, old-school rifle powders like 2400 and 4227 makes a big difference in both velocity and accuracy. Just curious if the Marlin's action would react well to those powders since you *may* get a big boost from them, especially with a bullet like the Sierra 240gr.

    I used to use Blue Dot in "heavy" .45ACP loads but HS6 has almost entirely replaced it as my heavy bullet powder in .45ACP. Here's the Sierra 240gr. RIFLE loading data for the .45 Colt for example. Testing firearm was a Winchester Model 94AE (16"bbl). Notice 2400 gives the best velocity at close to max, 4227 is second and AA#5 is right there with it. I no longer have that .45ACP carbine to test with - or the money I sold it for. :(
    upload_2021-4-19_13-30-4.png
     
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  17. Mark_Mark

    Mark_Mark Member

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    i am ! lol

    looks tasty

    Big fan of Southern Mystery meat at they sell at Food Lion
     
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  18. milsurpguy

    milsurpguy Member

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    Ugh more reasons to get longshot.

    Yeah I hold like a dozen tax stamps, from mundane silencers all the way to destructive devices. You can say I have heard of the NFA and they have heard of me.
    Yeah that's what I was thinking, it's almost bow hunting.
     
  19. milsurpguy

    milsurpguy Member

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    I tried Alliant 410 which is supposed to be a little faster burning than 2400 when developing my "9mm deer load". I had nice compressed loads of A410 giving me about 700fps out of a 9 inch barrel.
    I ended up going with AA9 for my deer load. Now I just need to refine the load, maybe add magnum primers, ect.
    Edit: the AA9 is for use in 9mm, not 45acp, I don't think AA9 will burn fast enough for use in a 45acp, kind of like how 2400/A410 wouldn't burn fast enough in a 9mm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  20. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    45 ACP is far better than 9mm but still not a good choice for the intended use. Frankly, it’s only a little less silly.

    Case capacity and powders for 45 ACP do not translate into significant velocity gains with a carbine barrel. If you think 45 ACP is suitable and can deliver ethical kills from a pistol, add some yardage for improved sight picture from a rifle and you have your carbine range. A bullet that expands would be better than one that didn’t.
     
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  21. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Sounds like you already had it nailed down. What was the purpose of the question that kicked off the thread?
     
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  22. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    For hunting wild pigs? Sure. Armadillo and raccoon? Absolutely. People? The results of two world wars and various organized crime operation vs. civil police actions say "yes." Deer? Hmmm.... Not so sure. But...

    The .44WCF and .45 Colt in lever action, rolling block, falling block, and various other carbines have both been considered "good" close-range deer loads since their inception. Obviously, since the 1870's better rounds have come along - including the venerable but much maligned .30WCF and .35Remington - but those two pistol cartridges have proven themselves not only adequate but good woods gun cartridges in carbines and revolvers in the hands of people who know what they're doing. Agreed?

    However... The .45 ACP is NOT the .45 Colt, nor it is the .44WCF or .38WCF... but it is designed to duplicate the military incarnation of the .45 Colt as adopted by the US Army and, in a locking action, can be loaded to match its ballistics. I know because I've done it. But I did it in a bolt action carbine, using rifle powders and revolver bullets, not a self-loading carbine using bullets and powders for a self-loading action.

    Would I do it? Nah. Not interested in chasing a wounded deer. I have rifles in .30-06, .30-30, .35Remington, 7.92m/m Infantry-Spitzer, 7.62m/m Mod. 91 Infantry and .303 Mk.VII, among others, so why would I use a "Camp Carbine" to hunt a deer? Especially since I also own various .45 Colt and .44 Magnum revolvers...

    I *could* hang wall-board with Superglue but, what's the point? To say it can be done, maybe?
     
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  23. milsurpguy

    milsurpguy Member

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    That was talking about 9mm carbine loads. I have done plenty of 9mm carbine loadings.
    I only briefly tried loading HS-6, AA7 and slower powders with 230gr and heavier bullets in 45acp a long time ago and I didn't have a carbine. My conclusion was slower powders and heavier bullets didn't do anything that couldn't already be done with typical faster 45acp powders and 230gr bullets in a 1911.
    Been loading 185 to 230gr over powders with a burn speed of HP38 to unique for the last 20 years, because apparently JMB nailed it back around 1910.
     
  24. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    I use the Lee 200gr H&G #68 style SWC sized .450” in a MMP .45/50cal sabot in a .50cal m/l for hunting deer. I load it over 80gr measure of Pyrodex RS, or 70gr measure of 777. It runs 1,500-1,700fps and is highly accurate.

    I’ve shot several deer out to 70yds with it. All one shot kills, though some have run 40-50yds after shot. With one exception, all were complete pass through. The one that wasn’t was a 15yd frontal hit on a mature 8pt. His spine was broken in two places and bullet was lost in field dressing. ~30” penetration.

    Shot from a .45acp handgun at 1,000fps, a well placed shot will do the trick.
    Chest shot deer pump blood out two holes till there is none. Short, wide, double blood tracks.
    I can’t imagine paying $2 for a muzzle loader projectile...
     
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  25. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    The solution of course is an 1892 lever rifle in .44-40. JMB nailed that one, too. :D
     
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