.45acp Kirst

[Blimp Captain]

I was looking at the Kirst Konverter. They have one for the '58 Remmie in .45 ACP. Can you use normal .45ACP rounds like Wolf or WWB??? B/c I know the .45 Colt conversion requires the use of "cowboy loads". Do the .45ACP rounds have to be reduce power (downloaded) and can you use copper-jacketed bullets.

 

[mike101]

Where did you see this? I know Kirst used to make a .45 ACP cylinder, but I haven't seen anything lately. It's not on Kirst's website, either. www.kirstkonverter.com.

As far as requiring cowboy ammo, it really depends on the gun. I've read about some tests online, where the Kirst was used in a Ruger Old Army. The guy was firing CorBon and Buffalo bore ammo out of the Ruger, with no problems.

 

[Ferret]

I would recommend BLACK POWDER ONLY in the conversion cylinders, be them R&D or Kirst. The original gun was marked 'black powder only' and I have no reason to believe that a conversion cylinder changes this.

It even states on Kirst's website, "The cylinders are rated "For Black Powder or equivalent loads only," which includes the current Cowboy Loads on the market."

I have seen these fired with smokeless loads, and have done it myself with reduced loads or special 'cowboy loads', but, I wont try it again, and will stick to BP only with my Kirst Konverters in my Remmie copies.

I also dont really see a reason to use ACP rounds in a replica revolver. I know its been done, and there are cylinders available but, if I wish to shoot ACP, I will buy myself a 1911. If i want to shoot my replicas, then I either use 45LC with BP or 45 Schofield with BP. The Schofield case is shorter than the 45 LC case, and so reduced loads are much easier.

Someone should make a Remington Replica in 44-40...... that would be a definate seller. Problem is that you would need the barrel lined so that it would shoot a 44 bullet without the 'hotdog in the hallway' problem!

 

[Ferret]

45 ACP cylinders at River Junction.

 

[mike101]

Well, that's new. There is also a .44 Colt from Kirst, occassionally.

 

[Cincinnati Slim]

Why .45 ACP makes a LOT OF SENSE !!!

Now ya got me thinking...

I know, .45 ACP ain't "cowboy" but consider this...

Most .45 ACP shooters reload because they shoot a LOT !

Y'all kin get .45 ACP lead bullet bulk commercial reloads REEEL CHEEEP compaired to .45 Colt. Them short stubby shells poke right out really easy compaired to those long thumb sizes .45 looong Colt shells. Plus, the ACP case saves powder, avoids the excess case capacity problems of the big 'ol .45 Colt brass.

I think this is pretty much the logic behind the little stubby ".45 Cowboy Special" brass; a .45 ACP size case with a rim.

But I also shoot the heck out of my Kimber 1911 and like to buy cheap bulk reloaded .45 ACP. With a converter cylinder I could go to the range and only have to bring ONE KIND OF AMMO !

Stay tuned, I just bought a press...coming soon, blackpowder .45 ACP reloads!

Wonder how my Kimber will like that ?

Happy Trails,

Cincinnati Slim

 

[Blimp Captain]

So I guess this .45ACP conversion cylinder is just for those that reload their own???? Becuase WWB or other brands would have jacketed bullets. Does the jacketing ruin the rifling or somethng? I would think the stainless steel barrel of my '58 Remmie is denser (harder) than the copper jacketed.

 

[ElGuapo]

Someone more qualified can correct me, but as I understand it:

Jacketed bullets are less compressable than unjacketed lead and so create and require more pressure to exit the barrel.

If you shoot a light load there is a greater chance of having a squib with a jacketed bullet than with a lead one. I believe this was a problem with light cowboy loads and people using jacketed bullets.

I would imagine a cylinder made to fire .45 ACP is rated to fire at least standard pressure modern loads? So I don't know if shooting higher pressure smokeless loads would be a problem.

So the question would be in finding a balance between shooting a cartridge that isn't more powerful than the gun can handle and yet have enough power to get a jacketed bullet out of the bore.

As I said, using a jacketed bullet also causes more pressure inside the barrel since the gasses have to push harder to get it out. I'd imagine the barrel could handle it though. Getting a bullet stuck in the barrel because of not using a powerful enough load is probably the bigger problem.

Jacketed bullets won't harm your rifling. Don't know if there's any difference in rifling between BP revolvers and modern ones.

In a gun magazine I have there is a picture showing a cutaway of a barrel with three, three(!), jacketed bullets stacked behind eachother with a small bulge in the barrel behind them. The shooter evidently didn't notice he had a problem even after 2 more shots. The article was about reloading smokeless loads for the .45 Colt cartridge for Cowboy Action Shooting and the author recommended against using jacketed bullets for Cowboy loads.

 

[Jim K]

"Does the jacketing ruin the rifling or somethng?"

Or something. Aside from pressure questions, BP replica barrels are pretty soft, made for lead bullets and low pressures. I have not tried, but I suspect jacketed bullets will tear up a BP replica barrel very quickly.

Jim

 

[ElGuapo]

Well, forget what I said then.

Could they be that soft, though? Someone should try it and post here.

If you think about it though, .45 Colt is available anywhere as much as .45 ACP, even in cowboy loads. I saw some Black Hills .45 Colt in cowboy configuration at my local Turner's Outdoorsman and they never carry anything but the most mainstream stuff, including abosulutely nothing for BP shooters.

 

[Cincinnati Slim]

.45 ACP conversion cylinders

Howdy Folks,

I forget the brand name but our local Dick's Sporting Goods stores here in Cincy carry bulk commercial lead-bullet reloads in 9mm, .38 special and .45 ACP. I think the price is like $ 39.95 for 250 rounds of .45 ACP. Mail order outfits like Calela's or Midway have similar deals on lead-bullet reloads.

Winchester or Ultramax .45 Colt "cowboy" loads are $ 18.00 to $ 25.00 for 50 rounds at the local stores. I ain't a great math-whiz but I do like to get the most shootin' for my money...

And no, I wouldn't shoot jacketed bullets out of a BP cap&ball revolver.

That's what my Kimber is for...

Cheers,

Slim

 

[hildo]

Remington 1875 Army in 44-40 win

@Ferret

Someone should make a Remington Replica in 44-40...... that would be a definate seller. Problem is that you would need the barrel lined so that it would shoot a 44 bullet without the 'hotdog in the hallway' problem!

I saw a used replica Remington 1875 in 44-40 for sale at our range once. They do exist. Nice quality too.
Looked it up and it is to be found on the Hege-Uberti site (German).
http://www.hege-arms.com/
Klick 'Western Waffen' - 'Cartridge Revolvers' - and go button 'next, next and so on until you will see it.

I believe Hege-Uberti is the German distributor for Uberti, it may be made for Hege-Uberti only since the 44-40 caliber is not mentioned on the Italian Uberti website. Do not know how difficult it would be to get a one of these revolvers to the U.S.

 

[SMPARKINSON]

I have the Kirst .45 ACP conversion for my Uberti 1858

I got it because the ammo is cheaper and more available than .45 Long Colt, and because Jay Strite told me that the .45 ACP is the most accurate conversion for the .44 Remington 1858. And Jay told me in no Uncertain terms that I should only shoot lead bullets, not jacketed. He didn't say the world would end if I shot jacketed, but he made it clear that he felt strongly about staying with lead bullets for the .45 ACP conversion, primarily because he said the steel used in the cap & ball replica 1858's was softer than regular modern cartridge guns. He said the only exception might be the Ruger Old Army. So I figure if the gunsmith who makes them and probably knows more about modern conversion cylinders says to stay with lead, I'm gonna stay with lead. Why ask for an expert opinion if you're gonna ignore it?
Steve