460 rowland no conversion

[Thompsoncustom]

Just a quick thought but why couldn't you just take a 460 Rowland case and cut it down to .45 acp specs and than just upgrade your springs? I see that most 460 rowland conversions come with comps but does the comp do anything but help manage recoil.

I'm just wondering if i'm right and that you could just cut down Rowland case instead of reaming the chamber.

 

[Wayne_E]

The 460 is a much higher pressure round than the 45 ACP. Shooting that high a pressure in a 45 is bad juju.

 

[jmorris]

I'm just wondering if i'm right and that you could just cut down Rowland case instead of reaming the chamber.

No, that would be unwise.

 

[yamahawarrior89]

try 45 super

I have never tried it but I believe it is between 460 Rowland and 45 acp

 

[Thompsoncustom]

The 460 is a much higher pressure round than the 45 ACP. Shooting that high a pressure in a 45 is bad juju.

Can you explain? These conversion kits aren't more than a comp and springs. Plus a different or reamed barrel.

try 45 super

Been there done that, and it is a big jump up or at least underwood's 45 super is.

I understand that pressure difference between 45acp and 460 is 20k which is a ton but I don't think the barrel is the weak link here, lone wolf just reams there barrel longer for 460 rowland instead of 45acp.

 

[Silent Sam]

"but does the comp do anything but help manage recoil. "

Absolutely. It prevents battering the pistol to pieces. Springs aren't enough. The max performance for what you are talking about is the 45 Super. The 460 Rowland is a whole lot more.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

but does the comp do anything but help manage recoil.

Thanks I was wondering about that and I still don't understand how it does anything but force the barrel down but I'll look into it.

 

[tyeo098]

Imagine cutting down a 357 case so it'll fit in a 38spl gun.

And loading it to 357 specs.

Same thing.

Well, it was nice knowing ya

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Imagine cutting down a 357 case so it'll fit in a 38spl gun.

And loading it to 357 specs.

Same thing.

Well, it was nice knowing ya

The case difference is not nearly as extreme but I see your point. I've push 9mm to 60k psi so I can't say i'm worried and have the equipment to shoot the gun from a distance.

 

[yamahawarrior89]

^^^^^

If that's the case then try it and report back.

 

[ljnowell]

I've always wondered why someone would come and ask the opinion of others about doing something unsafe, and then try to convince us that its safe. Instead of wasting everyones time, just go do it.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

If that's the case then try it and report back

I plan on it was just trying to gauge others thoughts on slide speed don't want to end up with a cracked slide if I don't have to but there's only one way to really find out. Was hoping some others with 460 rowland's would/will chime in.

I've always wondered why someone would come and ask the opinion of others about doing something unsafe, and then try to convince us that its safe. Instead of wasting everyones time, just go do it.

You only waste your own time by replying with nonsense like this. Also you assume this is unsafe and unless you have tired it your self or have evidence that it is your just blowing smoke.

 

[ljnowell]

You only waste your own time by replying with nonsense like this. Also you assume this is unsafe and unless you have tired it your self or have evidence that it is your just blowing smoke.

There is no need to post crap about blosing smoke, you are just fanning fires and thats a very non-THR type thing. You are asking can I load 45acp to 460 rowland specs then arguing with people that say no. What do you expect? Are we all "blowing smoke" for telling you the same thing?

 

[yamahawarrior89]

Maybe use a squared firing pin block, a heavy spring, compensator, and maybe a shok-buff. Load them as ling as possible too. Good luck

 

[Arizona_Mike]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this except the risk of you or someone else chambering one of your Rowlands in another gun.

1. Rowland Conversion:
Fully supported Rowland barrel
Stronger spring
Muzzle break

2. What I assume you are proposing:
Fully supported .45 barrel
Stronger spring
Muzzle break.

If the gun is strong enough for #1 it is strong enough for #2. I don't think that most people who have responded on this thread are aware that most Rowland pistols are conversions and the longer case has nothing to do with protecting the converted gun and everything to do with protecting unconverted guns (as well as protecting J.R. Rowland's, Starline's, and Clark Customs' butts from liability).

I would use a gun that is known to be reliable for 10mm (37.5kpsi SAAMI Max average pressure) for the Rowland (40kpsi SAMMI Max average pressure). Although the pressures are similar, you are going to have as much as 36% more bolt thrust with the Rowland hence the need for a comp to slow the gun down. In the case of a Glock, I would use the "wide" slide full sized 20/21. Of course none of this has anything to do with the depth of your chamber as .45 ACP and .45 Rowland are loaded to the same OAL.

A few weeks ago, I had read about some tests of three aftermarket "fully supported barrels" and they recommended Lone Wolf and one other and did not recommend the third. Sorry I don't have the link. I took note because I use Lone Wolf.

Mike

 

[.338-06]

There is a good series of articles on the .460 Rowland on the RealGuns website. He even sections a sample of .45acp, .45 Super and .460 Rowland cases. The big difference seems to me to be the fully supported barrel or not. Remember the overall length of the cartridges, .45acp and .460 Rowland is the same. I believe the extra length of the Rowland case was to keep it from being used in not fully supported .45 barrels.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I don't even shoot full power 10mm in my factory Glock 20 barrel any more. I don't like the feed ramp bulge in the side of the case. I use my aftermarket barrels exclusively.

Mike

 

[rockhopper46038]

If you go to the .460 Rowland site you can read some of the technical information about the cartridge. The compensator does more than tame recoil; I believe it also acts to delay the unlocking of the barrel in the slide until some of the pressure has dissipated.

 

[hentown]

Thanks I was wondering about that and I still don't understand how it does anything but force the barrel down but I'll look into it.

Ported barrels "force the barrel down." Comps have expansion chambers, in which the forward-moving gases impact the forward surface(s) of the expansion chamber(s), causing the slide speed to be significantly reduced.

 

[jmorris]

There is a reason people make the ammunition not backwards compatible.

Just like reloading steel or aluminum cases, loading over maximum, telling a woman that dress does make her look fat, these are all things we can do but just are not the best of decisions...

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Did some looking at the 460 rowland forum and cutting the case down works great according to people that have done it. But it also looks like everyone runs a comp to slow the slide, so I'll probably just run a super heavy recoil spring and work up from 28k (45 super).

 

[Pete D.]

Case

How are you going to deal with the unsupported case head? Or did i miss that in the earlier posts? Just curious, not critical.
Pete

 

[Clark]

Thompsoncustom
Member


Join Date: December 21, 2010
Posts: 598
460 rowland no conversion
Just a quick thought but why couldn't you just take a 460 Rowland case and cut it down to .45 acp specs and than just upgrade your springs? I see that most 460 rowland conversions come with comps but does the comp do anything but help manage recoil.

Every brand of 45acp brass I tried is more than strong enough for 460 Rowland loads.
Case support and recoil are the problems.
I did it in May 2000 and have posted details of the project over and over.
I used mixed 45acp brass, and I have gone way past the 460 Rowland level.
Brass is not the problem.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=671121&highlight=patriot

 

[Arizona_Mike]

A Rowland or Super head stamp can serve as a visual indicator of the high pressure load.

Mike

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Indeed, I've never pushed super brass over 28k but if it can handle up to 40 no need to trim 460 rowland down.