5.56mm vs .223 Rem primers in Wylde barrel

[devils4ever]

I finally got a chance to test fire my hand-built AR15 type rifle using a Wylde barrel. This barrel allows both 5.56mm and .223 Rem to be fired accurately in it. I used all mil 5.56mm ball ammo at the range and saved the brass for reloading.

However, I've read that I should use CCI #41 primers for reloading to prevent slamfires. But, this doesn't make sense to be since the point of the Wylde barrel is allow both mil and comm ammo to be fired. Commercial ammo doesn't use the harder #41 primers.

Thoughts?

Do I need to find CCI #41 primers?

 

[Reloadron]

The .223 Wylde is a proprietary rifle cartridge chamber with the external dimensions and lead angle as found in the military 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge and the 0.2240 inch freebore diameter as found in the civilian SAAMI .223 Remington cartridge.

So what you have is a Wylde Chamber verse a standard SAAMI 223 chamber or a NATO 5.56 chamber. The difference is covered in the quote. AR rifles have a free floating firing pin. NATO loaded 5.56 ammunition uses a slightly less sensitive primer where the primer cup is thicker. The CCI #41 primer is supposed to duplicate the 5.56 NATO priming.

While I have used CCI 400 standard rifle and CCI450 magnum small rifle primers given a choice I do like the CCI #41 and try to have them available. I also have used CCI BR-4 bench rest primers without a problem. So do I need CCI #41 primers? No, but see them more as a nice to have. Never had them years ago when loading 223, how did we ever survive? Do I recommend manually placing a live round manually in the chamber and allowing the bolt to slam home on it? No, common sense prevails.

You will get mixed responses on this. My response is no they are not needed but a nice to have. Can you load 223 less them? Yes.

Their use pertains to any AR or any rifle with a free floating firing pin.

Ron

 

[devils4ever]

So, using this logic means I really shouldn't fire .223 Rem ammo in it. [emoji30]

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet (pun intended) and try to find these primers.

 

[Dudedog]

Some primers are less sensitive than others in small rifle, a good thing for ARs. I like to use SR mag primers for my AR. I have shot a lot of the Tula KVB556M Smalll Rifle Magnum with no issues. They are less expensive than some. Do you really need the CCI 41s or a SR mag primer like the KVB556M for ARs with floating firing pins, maybe maybe not.
I like to use them as I feel it reduces the risk of a slam fire.

My guess is 50% will say yes 50% will say no.

As pointed out earlier the chamber is not the issue it's the floating firing pin in ARs. (other semi autos have floating firing pins as well so it is not unique to the AR platform)
I don't know it for a fact but I have heard some companies load .223 with primers that are "harder/less sensitive" knowing it may be shot in ARs.
Having said that in the past I shot a lot of .223/5.56 with non mag CCI SR 400s in my AR and Mini 14 with no problems. Would I use them if they were all I could get, yes, would I buy them for AR use if I had a choice, no.
CCIs in general are considered "harder" than some other brands.
You might try a search on favorite AR primers, favorite 5.56 primers, or favorite .223 primers. And see what comes up.
Hope you enjoy your rifle.

 

[Reloadron]

No, you can fire either cartridge just fine. Also, I am not telling you to run out and buy the CCI #41 Primers. I have sent thousands of rounds downrange from AR rifles using CCI 400, CCI 450 and CCI BR-4 primers. Myself and dozens of hand loaders in these forums.

For example the Hornady 9th Edition Handbook of Cartridge Reloading has a section for 223 Remington (Service Rifle) and a section for 5.56 NATO loadings. Both sections used an AR rifle, a Colt and Bushmaster respectively. Both sections recommend the use of standard WSR primers (Winchester Small Rifle). The less sensitive CCI #41 primers only reduce the possibility of a slam fire. That is all they do.

Ron

 

[rcmodel]

Even if an AR-15 slam fires, it will not harm the gun.

You will just get a round off down range you didn't intend too.

Or a Double (2 quick shots) with one trigger pull.

Myself, I have used CCI and Win standard primers in .223 / 5.56 AR-15 and Ruger Mini-14 rifles and never had a problem.

After I found out I had to swage primer pocket crimp out of military brass and stopped smashing them in.

BTW: After the first firing, all 5.56 ammo is .223 ammo after you load them in .223 loading dies!!

rc

 

[matrem]

Seeing as you bought the Wylde chamber, being able to shoot 5.56 as well as accuracy with .223 is likely what you want?

Shooting .223 in any Wylde or 5.56 chamber is ok.
As far as those #41 primers go, I've never used them in many thousands of .223 handloads and yet to see a reason to.
Not that they'd be unsafe, you just don't need them, and you just may find more light primer strike misfires with them. I know some folks that have.

 

[otisrush]

I've used CCI #450s in my AR with no issues whatsoever. (Chambered 5.56/.223.)

I think the larger "issue" is ensuring the primer is seated slightly below the case head. My understanding that is a key part of reducing the chance of a slam fire.

OR

 

[Dudedog]

+1 on primer seating.
Makes me wonder what % of slam fires are caused by high primers.

 

[cfullgraf]

So what you have is a Wylde Chamber verse a standard SAAMI 223 chamber or a NATO 5.56 chamber. The difference is covered in the quote. AR rifles have a free floating firing pin. NATO loaded 5.56 ammunition uses a slightly less sensitive primer where the primer cup is thicker. The CCI #41 primer is supposed to duplicate the 5.56 NATO priming.

While I have used CCI 400 standard rifle and CCI450 magnum small rifle primers given a choice I do like the CCI #41 and try to have them available. I also have used CCI BR-4 bench rest primers without a problem. So do I need CCI #41 primers? No, but see them more as a nice to have. Never had them years ago when loading 223, how did we ever survive? Do I recommend manually placing a live round manually in the chamber and allowing the bolt to slam home on it? No, common sense prevails.

You will get mixed responses on this. My response is no they are not needed but a nice to have. Can you load 223 less them? Yes.

Their use pertains to any AR or any rifle with a free floating firing pin.

Ron

I agree with Ron and use primers about the same way.

Except, in my 17 Remington and 204 Ruger AR-15s (prairie dog rifles), I use Remington 7-1/2 primers. This is more for round performance than anything else.

 

[judgedelta]

From all of that I got: always watch where your muzzle is pointed when you release the bolt;
it is better to load a round from the magazine, rather than putting it in the chamber and releasing the bolt on it.

I have read on other forums that you can use a half of a magazine release spring on your firing pin to keep it from free floating. I have not tried this and prefer to watch the muzzle.

 

[moxie]

When seating a primer the object IS NOT to seat it slightly below flush.

The object IS to seat it to the bottom of the pocket. Checking that it is slightly below flush (or slightly deeper) indicates that it has likely been bottomed out or close enough.

Never have had a problem with a single slam fire using CCI 400, Win. or Fed. SRP. But as others have noted, ALWAYS keep that sucker pointed downrange. (Rules 2 and 4)

 

[rskent]

Do I need to find CCI #41 primers?

No, what you need to do is keep an eye on where that muzzle is pointed when you drop the bolt. If you get a slam fire, and you very well may, it would be great if you didn't shoot anybody.
My only slam fire was with a factory round. The round hit the berm. I now feel better pointing the muzzle at the dirt in front of me. Luckily I have not had a repeat event since. I assume at some point I will.


Random thoughts:
Reload for your rifle's chamber (whatever the chamber) and don't worry about it. My match rifle does have a Wylde chamber. They have worked well for me. I would not however call it “proprietary”.

I use CCI's if at all possible, small rifle for stick powder, small rifle magnums for ball powder.

 

[otisrush]

When seating a primer the object IS NOT to seat it slightly below flush.

The object IS to seat it to the bottom of the pocket. Checking that it is slightly below flush (or slightly deeper) indicates that it has likely been bottomed out or close enough.

Never have had a problem with a single slam fire using CCI 400, Win. or Fed. SRP. But as others have noted, ALWAYS keep that sucker pointed downrange. (Rules 2 and 4)

Great point. I had a high primer once and it did not slam fire. In fact, when I pulled the trigger it misfired. I didn't know the cause at the time and when I inspected the round all looked fine. I rechambered it and it shot.

Apparently the first trigger pull seated the primer into the cup. I now clean the primer pocket on every case. ☺

 

[moxie]

I don't bother cleaning the pockets and it has never been a problem.