I bought my 1952 vintage K-22 used in the mid 1990s and it has seen plenty of used since then. Like so many of those early K-22s mine is suffering from poor extraction after a few cylinders have been fired through it but the accuracy is top!
5-Screw K-22 Masterpiece
- Thread starter Dave Markowitz
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.455_Hunter
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That's a new one to me. What is the problem?
jaguarxk120
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A five screw S&W revolver has number five screw in front of the trigger guard.
Not at the base of the grip! The screw in front of the trigger guard retains the
crane.
Not at the base of the grip! The screw in front of the trigger guard retains the
crane.
.455_Hunter
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Are you sure about that?
jaguarxk120
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Yes, check on the S&W collector's site.
Just type in 5 screw S&W revolvers on your search engine.
Just type in 5 screw S&W revolvers on your search engine.
entropy
Member
I love that this turned into a 'show off' thread. The K-22/Model 17 and the Colt Officer's Model match are my two grail .22 revolvers.PzGren--Try Federal ammo. I find it extracts much better/longer in my older Smiths. Not sure if brass is a hair smaller, thicker, or ????
.455_Hunter
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OP
OP
Dave Markowitz
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The side plate screw nearest the front of the frame retains the crane.
jaguarxk120
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On five screw guns the number five screw is located in front on the narrow edge of the frame,
not in the side plate.
The strain screw at the grip bottom is not counted.
not in the side plate.
The strain screw at the grip bottom is not counted.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
How about a few photos to explain about screws?
This is a Five Screw 38 Military and Police from the 1920s. Notice there are four screws securing the side plate to the frame.
The fifth screw is in front of the trigger guard.
Unlike the other four screws, which hold the side plate in place, the fifth screw held a spring and spring plunger which actuated the cylinder stop. Other brands of revolvers call the cylinder stop a bolt. This photo of a different five screw 38 M&P shows the fifth screw, and the spring and spring plunger oriented as they would go into their hole in the frame. They are pointing at the cylinder stop. It is a bit out of position, but it is the part those parts actuated.
This is a four screw Model 27. Like all profitable companies, S&W was always on a quest to reduce the cost to make their products. The screw at the upper corner of the side plate was the first of the five screws to go. S&W found it less expensive to machine a lip on the underside of the side plate that could fit into a slot in the frame, than tapping a hole and securing the upper corner of the side plate with a separate screw. This happened during the mid 1950s on most models, varying by a couple of years per model. The side plate screw at the top of the grips is still there, but it is hidden under the grip. The screw in front of the trigger guard is also still present on this Model 27 that shipped in 1959.
The next screw to be eliminated was the screw in front of the trigger guard. This happened in the early 1960s on most models. This is a typical three screw S&W, a Model 17-3 that shipped in 1975.
This photo shows the result of eliminating the screw in front of the trigger guard. A small compression spring is positioned between a hollow in the frame and the cylinder stop. This shows the actual position of the cylinder stop, with an elongated hole placed over a stud in the frame. When the action cycles, the projection on the trigger pulls the cylinder stop down, allowing the cylinder to rotate. As the trigger continues to rotate, the projection pops out of the cylinder stop, allowing the spring to pop it back up against the cylinder. Which is why most S&W revolvers have a partial turn line on the cylinder. The cylinder stop pops up about halfway between chambers and rubs against the cylinder as it finishes rotating. By the way, I much prefer taking a five or four screw Smith apart vs a three screw. It is easy to mash that spring when reassembling the revolver. Much simpler to replace the spring and plunger when they rode in a hole in the frame under a screw.
Oh, yes, I have taken enough Smith and Wesson revolvers apart to be sure that the side plate screw over the trigger guard secures the cylinder yoke in place. Here is my Model 17-3 completely disassembled. Notice there is a groove that runs around the stem of the cylinder yoke. The side plate screw over the trigger guard has two functions. In addition to holding down the front of the side plate, the tip of the screw extends into that groove in the stem of the yoke. When assembled, the yoke can rotate and is held in place by the tip of the screw extending into the groove. When the screw is removed, the yoke can be pulled forward out of the frame. This can be done for routine cleaning without taking anything else apart but that screw. If one completely disassembles the revolver it is a good idea to note which screw came out of which hole. The screw we have been talking about is often filed down to a specific length so it will not bind the yoke when snugged down. Putting the wrong screw back in that hole can sometimes cause a problem.
How about a few photos to explain about screws?
This is a Five Screw 38 Military and Police from the 1920s. Notice there are four screws securing the side plate to the frame.
The fifth screw is in front of the trigger guard.
Unlike the other four screws, which hold the side plate in place, the fifth screw held a spring and spring plunger which actuated the cylinder stop. Other brands of revolvers call the cylinder stop a bolt. This photo of a different five screw 38 M&P shows the fifth screw, and the spring and spring plunger oriented as they would go into their hole in the frame. They are pointing at the cylinder stop. It is a bit out of position, but it is the part those parts actuated.
This is a four screw Model 27. Like all profitable companies, S&W was always on a quest to reduce the cost to make their products. The screw at the upper corner of the side plate was the first of the five screws to go. S&W found it less expensive to machine a lip on the underside of the side plate that could fit into a slot in the frame, than tapping a hole and securing the upper corner of the side plate with a separate screw. This happened during the mid 1950s on most models, varying by a couple of years per model. The side plate screw at the top of the grips is still there, but it is hidden under the grip. The screw in front of the trigger guard is also still present on this Model 27 that shipped in 1959.
The next screw to be eliminated was the screw in front of the trigger guard. This happened in the early 1960s on most models. This is a typical three screw S&W, a Model 17-3 that shipped in 1975.
This photo shows the result of eliminating the screw in front of the trigger guard. A small compression spring is positioned between a hollow in the frame and the cylinder stop. This shows the actual position of the cylinder stop, with an elongated hole placed over a stud in the frame. When the action cycles, the projection on the trigger pulls the cylinder stop down, allowing the cylinder to rotate. As the trigger continues to rotate, the projection pops out of the cylinder stop, allowing the spring to pop it back up against the cylinder. Which is why most S&W revolvers have a partial turn line on the cylinder. The cylinder stop pops up about halfway between chambers and rubs against the cylinder as it finishes rotating. By the way, I much prefer taking a five or four screw Smith apart vs a three screw. It is easy to mash that spring when reassembling the revolver. Much simpler to replace the spring and plunger when they rode in a hole in the frame under a screw.
Oh, yes, I have taken enough Smith and Wesson revolvers apart to be sure that the side plate screw over the trigger guard secures the cylinder yoke in place. Here is my Model 17-3 completely disassembled. Notice there is a groove that runs around the stem of the cylinder yoke. The side plate screw over the trigger guard has two functions. In addition to holding down the front of the side plate, the tip of the screw extends into that groove in the stem of the yoke. When assembled, the yoke can rotate and is held in place by the tip of the screw extending into the groove. When the screw is removed, the yoke can be pulled forward out of the frame. This can be done for routine cleaning without taking anything else apart but that screw. If one completely disassembles the revolver it is a good idea to note which screw came out of which hole. The screw we have been talking about is often filed down to a specific length so it will not bind the yoke when snugged down. Putting the wrong screw back in that hole can sometimes cause a problem.
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jaguarxk120
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Thank You for the correction. I thought the fifth screw held the crane in place.
The picture's you have posted show everything. Thanks again.
The picture's you have posted show everything. Thanks again.
Tacoma
Member
Nice find ! Especially considering all the accessories and condition! Old blued K22s are truly great in so many ways. They usually shoot "lights out" as well. I have had quite a few over the years and still keep two. A mint 17-2 and a 1939' Outdoorsman. In particular , this Outdoorsman has been a favorite since it was used to humble more than a few bottom feeder fans at a local match some dozen years ago. BTW, paid $175 for it in a local gun shop back in the early 2000's.!
BTW, paid $175 for it in a local gun shop back in the early 2000's.!
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Jeff olson
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You sir, are a very appreciated wealth of knowledge
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How many screws on this K22 masterpiece? Built in late '40's...(I don't have a pic that shows the TG screw, but it's there)
I count four...3 on the plate, one in front of the trigger guard...unless you count the one on the grip?
Guess it don't make no difference anywho...it's a great shooter, and the only pistol I have older than me.
I count four...3 on the plate, one in front of the trigger guard...unless you count the one on the grip?
Guess it don't make no difference anywho...it's a great shooter, and the only pistol I have older than me.
loneviking
Member
Nice find—especially with a box in really good shape. The boxes are very hard to find.My K22 and box date back to 1946.
J-Bar
Member
Take the grips off. You will see another side plate screw under the right grip.
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Master Blaster
Member
Here is a 1949 manufactured date k38 Target Master piece, and a 1955 k22 Target Masterpiece.
Both 5 screws, note the 1949 k38 has the Target hammer and narrow grooved trigger, and the 1955 k22 has the speed hammer.
Since these were Target guns shot in competition folks could order the features they wanted. When did the first long correction short action Target hammer appear??
Both 5 screws, note the 1949 k38 has the Target hammer and narrow grooved trigger, and the 1955 k22 has the speed hammer.
Since these were Target guns shot in competition folks could order the features they wanted. When did the first long correction short action Target hammer appear??
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dickydalton
Member
My 1947 and 1953. The 1953 is in the box never fired.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
I think you have your terms mixed up.
As far as I know, there was no 'long action target hammer'.
This is the style of hammer that was supplied on all S&W revolvers from 1899 to somewhere in the late 1940s. This is a 38 Hand Ejector, 1st Model that shipped in 1899.
Here it is fully cocked for single action shooting.
The mechanics of this hammer dictated that for single action shooting it went to full cock much further back than the position it would be in when released for double action shooting. Smith and Wesson realized that this did not make much sense, because there was enough energy pent up in the hammer spring to fire a primer when released from the double action position. So it did not make much sense to require the hammer to be cocked that much further, increasing the energy pent up in the spring, for single action shooting.
So sometime in the late 1940s S&W came up with the first 'short throw' hammer, that did not rotate back as far in single action shooting as the older design did.
At this time, the older style hammer started to be referred to as a 'long throw' hammer, as opposed to the newer short throw hammer.
This is the same type of hammer you have on your K-38. This one is on a K-38 too. It was the first short throw hammer, commonly referred to as the Speed Hammer. Sorry, I do not know exactly when this style of hammer was introduced. This particular K-38 shipped in 1950.
This is a typical short throw hammer. Notice the deep gullet between the hammer body and the hammer spur, as well as the deep knurling on the hammer spur. I cannot tell you exactly when this style of hammer appeared, but it was after the Speed Hammer. This particular Model 19-3 shipped in 1975, I am only using this photo because it shows the hammer so well. This is the same type of hammer that is still in production today. The MIM hammers are made differently, but they have the same basic shape.
The short throw hammer and trigger on the left in this photo are from a Model 17-3 that shipped in 1975. The MIM hammer and trigger on the right are from a Model 617-6 that shipped in 2003.
The K-22 Masterpiece at the top of this photo shipped in 1950, the K-22 Combat Masterpiece below it shipped around 1953. These revolvers both have short throw hammers with extra long spurs on them. I don't know if there was an official designation, but I would be tempted to call these Short Throw Target Hammers.
One more photo. The hammers in both of these revolvers are cocked for single action shooting. At the top is a Model 14-3 that shipped in 1974. The 38 Military and Police Target Model at the bottom of the photo shipped in 1917. This model was the precursor to the K-38, which in turn was the precursor to the Model 14. Notice how much further back the older hammer is when cocked as opposed to the modern hammer. (yes, I consider a revolver that shipped in 1974 to be a modern revolver)
Jim Watson
Member
I don't know what S&W called it pre WWII, collectors call it the "humpback hammer." Fairly common on the .357 Magnum, here is one on an Outdoorsman. Much less common on K frame revolvers.
Jim Watson
Member
Found a K humpback on the S&W board:
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