Dan from MI
Member
Dear Sheep,
Sheep is right......
BTW - They are from Sickago, I mean Chicago? I bet the Joyce Foundation is behind this then.
Dear Sheep,
Would it? I just sent an email to Salon's Ask the Pilot column. With some luck we'll get an authoritative answer to what a 50 cal could really do to a jetliner. I'm pretty the answer is "not very much" but we'll find out.A well thrown rock can take down an airplane.
Yes I agree. I honestly don't feel like terrorism is a risk in my life. I'm much more likely to be endangered by my own government than I am to be harmed by a terrorist.That is not the point.
Right, they know they can't just ban everything so they are going to chisel away. 50 cals are already illegal in my state, even though there has never been a report of criminal misuse of a 50 cal.The point is that the prohibition is incremental. First .50s, then .30 rifles with scopes, autoloading shotguns, autoloading handguns, knives, pointy sticks, etc...
Alas, it's hardly worth writing to my senators over this. They are the worst two senators in Senate. It would require a brain transplant to get them to vote differently.Explain to the senators in no uncertain terms that you won't stand for it.
Oh yeah, I know that "explosive decompression" is a myth, especially so at ground level (take off and landing). You can shoot holes in the body of a plane, knock out the passenger windows, whatever, nothing much will happen. The pilots will want to land the plane ASAP but there won't be a catastrophy.I'm not an expert, but the explosive decompression you're alluding to just doesn't happen.
Some years back a good portion of the top of an airliner on the way to Hawaii blew off - fatigue, who knows. One flight attendant apparently was sucked out of the aircraft. Everybody else made it home, largely undamaged.
A smaller hole - a window, for example - isn't going to do that at all. The aircraft already leaks at least that much air. It's "made up" by compressors that maintain pressurization at altitude.
I was refering to shattering the cockpit front window specifically. Of all the places on a plane that could bring a plane down, that seems like the only one. If the front cockpit window were completely shattered, and the plane is moving at 500mph or so, it seems like there would probably be enough wind in the cockpit that the pilots would be unable to control the plane. Think about it: you couldn't really control your arms or body in a 500mph wind, much less fly a plane.
Would a 50 cal bullet shatter these windows (the front cockpit window), or merely poke a (not so dangerous) hole? I'm guessing it would just poke a hole, because these are heavy laminated glass that's specifically designed to not shatter.
That sounds right to me. I'm sure cockpit "glass" is heavy stuff and might even deflect a 50 cal bullet, especially if the velocity is not perfectly orthogonal.Off the top of my head, it would just poke a hole, if that. Aircraft windows have to stand a certain amount of trauma - hail, rocks, etc. Military aircraft are supposed to take a few hits and keep on ticking, and that would include the windshields and such. I'm sure a heavy jet would be the same.
(I think that some general aviation - "private" - aircraft can opt for less damage-resistant windows. If it wasn't for Flight Simulator I wouldn't know what I was talking about at all, though.)
Harking back to WWII newsreels, the bombers and fighters were all coming back with holes in them, including the windows. It may be more important to mount the glass (or plexiglass) so it can't come out regardless of the damage.
The other thing they bring up is using this gun for assassination. Yes, it seems like that is a more realistic threat because clearly, these guns are long-range, accurate, and will fly through regular body armor (which some politicians probably wear). The hysteria is more about air travel, though, because it has more immediacy to "Joe Citizen". Also on the assassination issue, maybe our leaders should ask themselves why they are so hated that they worry so much about that
It seems like shooting a window would destroy it rather than poking a hole, since tempered glass is under stress and explodes when it is cracked. It would basically be like a car windshield breaking, but the wind would push out the glass fragments. The bullet would probably be deflected though.
Maybe. I can tell you from personal experience that a BB gun will destroy auto glass. It would be interesting to see someone like Mythbusters test this. In any case it hardly matters, it would take at least 2 seconds for a bullet to travel a mile and hit an airplane, the airplane is going at least 180 mph (that's the takeoff speed of a 747) so the plane will be at least 500 feet from where it was when you pulled the trigger.Somehow I think that'd be bad for business.... (Destroying the window, that is.) It's a laminated structure, like an auto windshield, which should result in a vinyl-backed sheet of glass fragments, still in place. However, whether the whole thing would powder, like a car windshield is supposed to (actually, not powder, but become safe to poke your head through), or try to limit the cracking, I don't know. The latter might be better - it's going to be fatally hard to see through one of those powdered windows. You can ignore cracks....
I can tell you from personal experience that a BB gun will destroy auto glass. It would be interesting to see someone like Mythbusters test this. In any case it hardly matters, it would take at least 2 seconds for a bullet to travel a mile and hit an airplane, the airplane is going at least 180 mph (that's the takeoff speed of a 747) so the plane will be at least 500 feet from where it was when you pulled the trigger.
News from www.50CaliberTerror.com
August 29th, 2005
Dear Frightened Little Lamb,
The campaign to keep .50 caliber sniper rifles out of the hands of terrorists continues. These rifles are deadly dangerous, and deadly accurate. They can pierce armor at 2000 yards, and can threaten civilian airplanes during takeoff. And yet they're freely available for purchase in the United States.
Last time, we gave you a few choice quotes from national security experts relating just how dangerous these rifles were, and why it was so important to keep them out of the hands of terrorists.
But even though they know .50 caliber sniper rifles don't belong on our streets, not everyone does. Today, we'll give you the other side of the story. We visited a few online message boards written by .50 caliber fans rifles, people who are trying to keep these weapons available for almost anyone to purchase. Here's what we found:
"I have a State Arms shorty model, it is an economical starter rifle, yesterday afternoon I was testing some different loads. I alwas seem to gather an audiance when I shoot (bench is close to the road) and end up letting everyone else take a shot or two. They are alwas intimidated untill they gather the nearve to pull the trigger, than it's the fifty grin, and they ask for another shell."
-"wi50"
"The Fifty Caliber Institute is currently collecting funds to support a lawsuit against the State of California to prevent the enforcement of California Penal Code section 12020.5, which prohibits any advertisements of .50 BMG rifles if the advertisements are circulated within the State. This law makes it impossible for law abiding .50 BMG rifle manufacturers, distributors and dealers to maintain websites or publish advertisements in national magazines without violating California law, even if they do not sell to residents in California."
-Fifty Caliber Institute Litigation Page
"rarely seen some times heard. you will hear the slug wizz by then 4 seconds later you will hear the crack of the rifle if i miss and i rarely do"
-"shadowfrog"
These are the people who argue that .50 caliber sniper rifles aren't dangerous, aren't used by criminals, and aren't a threat. Their thoughts and actions are driven by selfishness over issues of personal and national security. Is it worth the possibility of a tragedy just to let "wi50" get his "fifty grin"?
We don't think so. .50 caliber sniper rifles don't belong on our streets, don't belong in our country, and definitely don't belong in the hands of terrorists. All the same, we've got a long way to go to prevent "50 Caliber Terror."
To Donate http://www.50caliberterror.com/donate
To Subscribe http://www.50caliberterror.com/signup
(P.S.: We had an error yesterday where some of you received an empty email from us, and so this is a resend of this week's letter. We apologize for any inconvenience.)
***
.50 Caliber Terror is a project of the Freedom States Alliance. We're working to change the way America thinks about guns.
http://www.freedomstatesalliance.org/
Is it worth the possibility of a tragedy just to let "wi50" get his "fifty grin"?