50 drops - Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure

Would love to see a group for an extruded powder. I know fine powders can be finicky but on the extruded side, cutting kernels (in my experience) causes a + deviation. I have both the auto and deluxe and the resistance on the deluxe is felt moreso, obviously from the manual lever. When that kernel cuts, i think its enough of a total movement where additional kernels drop. i dunno just an assumption.
 
Click_Here said:
Would love to see a group for an extruded powder.
Click to expand...
During pandemic, I let my powder stock go to hunters and other shooters who were desperate for powder and all the extruded powders like Varget/H4895 went including N320/N340 (which are short cut extruded powders) as I had plenty of W231/HP-38 and Promo along with H335.

Since, only powders I have been able to restock have been No 2, Titegroup, H335 and BL-C(2) while I continue to wait to restock Varget/H4895 along with AR Comp and Benchmark.
 
W231/HP-38 50 drops - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/50-drops-lee-deluxe-perfect-powder-measure.922834/

Titegroup 50 drops - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-perfect-powder-measure.922834/#post-12711491

LiveLife said:
I plan on testing other powders ... No 2
Click to expand...
Powder measure was disassembled for inspection (Not much was found but few loose granules and darkened wiper) and wiped clean with paper towel then reassembled with light pressure on the wing nut so there was almost no resistance to lever movement. Brand new factory 1 lb container of Accurate No. 2 was screwed to the red bottle adapter directly and 20 charges were dropped before starting 50 charge drops with target of 4.02 gr (NOTE: Lever down-up-down was used with slight pause around 1 second in up position to fill powder):
  1. 4.02 gr
  2. 4.02 gr
  3. 4.04 gr
  4. 4.04 gr
  5. 4.02 gr
  6. 4.02 gr
  7. 4.04 gr
  8. 4.02 gr
  9. 4.02 gr
  10. 4.00 gr
  11. 4.02 gr
  12. 4.02 gr
  13. 4.02 gr
  14. 4.02 gr
  15. 4.02 gr
  16. 4.00 gr
  17. 4.00 gr
  18. 4.00 gr
  19. 4.04 gr
  20. 4.04 gr
  21. 4.04 gr
  22. 4.04 gr
  23. 4.04 gr
  24. 4.04 gr
  25. 4.04 gr
  26. 4.04 gr
  27. 4.02 gr
  28. 4.02 gr
  29. 4.02 gr
  30. 4.04 gr
  31. 4.02 gr
  32. 4.02 gr
  33. 4.04 gr
  34. 4.02 gr
  35. 4.04 gr
  36. 4.02 gr
  37. 4.02 gr
  38. 4.04 gr
  39. 4.02 gr
  40. 4.04 gr
  41. 4.04 gr
  42. 4.04 gr
  43. 4.04 gr
  44. 4.04 gr
  45. 4.04 gr
  46. 4.04 gr
  47. 4.04 gr
  48. 4.02 gr
  49. 4.02 gr
  50. 4.04 gr
Breakdown of charges:
  • 22 charges of 4.02 gr (On target)
  • 24 charges of 4.04 gr (.02 gr from target)
  • 4 charges of 4.00 gr (.02 gr from target)

LiveLife said:
... I would not be surprised to see the results get better as the drum continues to be conditioned and break in. We often see the best results after a pound has been ran through any powder measure ...​
​
Calvin Katzfey, Lee Precision​
Click to expand...
I plan on repeating W231/HP-38 and Titegroup 50 drops after the drum has sufficiently "conditioned".

sparkyv said:
I'm curious if this powder measure leaks with ball powders such as H110 and AA#9.
Click to expand...
I put two pieces of copy paper below the measure to catch any spillage of powder. After 70 drops, 0.46 gr of spillage was captured and pictured below.

DLXPTXNo2spill.jpg
 
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Can you tell if the leaks are thru the drum or from the drop tube? I have developed the practice of tapping the side of the measure with case still in place, and that seems to limit the leaked powder that shows up. On the plastic PPM, in the Lee book, there is mention of this and Richard Lee said one could remove the bottom handle stop to allow drop tube to rotate past the offending flat spot where powder hung up, and that would eliminate the leaks from the tube.

Wondering if this is still the case with the Deluxe? If I'm able to limit what shows up by tapping the measure (similar to the "jolt" the Lee case flare die does.....which is on purpose to get any residual hung powder to drop), then it would suggest that may be the source of any leaks that show up.
 
I definitely won't complain about any deviations below 0.1 grain with any powder measurer when reloading pistol calibers.

I am interested in seeing how H335 does.

As always great write ups
 
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I have been using the same Lee Auto Drum since they were introduced, however many years ago that was. Been using it to load 380, 9mm, 38Spl, 45acp and 223. Powders used are AA#2, AA#5, HP-38, Bullseye, Universal, Silhouette, TAC, A2460, BL,C2, Benchmark and Varget.

None of the extruded powders are as consistent as the ball powders. The Accurate 2460 is the finest grained powder I use and I can honestly tell everyone that this stuff is so fine it jambs up my Hornady powder tickler to the point it gets hard to turn.

With the 2460 and TAC I can load up 50 rounds at around 23gr each and at the end of the run there is not enough leakage on the press of bench to move my RCBS 505 scale to .1gr.... I spill more than I leak.

I have a digital scale that weights displayed in X.XXgr, .02 graduations... When check-weighed on it I get a variance of 0.96 to 1.04gr. when set point is 1.0, I believe I can live with this even loading just 2.2gr of pistol powder for the 380acp., My beam scale cannot pick-up that difference. Or at least I can't read it.
 
kmw1954 said:
I have a digital scale that weights displayed in X.XXgr, .02 graduations... When check-weighed on it I get a variance of 0.96 to 1.04 gr. when set point is 1.0
Click to expand...
I so agree on using higher resolution scales for more precise powder charge drop confirmation.

I have several beam and digital scales that consistently verify Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights down to 0.1 gr and below, exactly and repeatedly. Collecting these scales over time was done so powder charge drops could be verified below 0.1 gr weight.

When I did the original myth busting thread on digital scales, I got a crash course training from THR members who emphasized on using lighter check weights than typical "reloaders" set that only went down to 0.5 gr which prompted me to buy Ohaus ASTM Class 6 set that went down to 0.015 gr - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...tal-scale-accuracy.759750/page-5#post-9593052

Since then, I have verified my beam scales to 0.1 gr using check weights (Ohaus 10-10 and Lee scales have sensitivity below 0.1 gr) and digital scales down to 0.06 - 0.08 gr using check weights consistently and repeatedly. I even myth busted the zero drift on my Vevor lab digital scale to eliminate zero drift that was due to strain gauge mount plate to resolve Varget down to single kernel - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-scale-zero-drift-and-can-it-be-fixed.893402/

And Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 digital scale verified check weights down to 3 mg / 0.05 gr to go onto resolving Promo to single flake - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-reloading-scale-review.904159/#post-12262302

All these leads to being able to accurately verify powder charge drops ruling out the inherent "drift" of some digital scales as I regularly verify scales with check weights before each test session.
 
12Bravo20 said:
I definitely won't complain about any deviations below 1 grain with any powder measurer when reloading pistol calibers.
Click to expand...
You probably meant 0.1 gr? And I would agree.

12Bravo20 said:
I am interested in seeing how H335 does ... As always great write ups
Click to expand...
H335 is next powder to test after measure disassembly and clean up. And thank you.
 
Yes I meant to say 0.1 grain and NOT 1 grain. I will correct my earlier post for that. One full grain could be very dangerous.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Can you tell if the leaks are thru the drum or from the drop tube?
Click to expand...
I have been using the pan from Ohaus 10-10 beam scale to catch the powder charge drops from the drop tube to simplify weighing and looks like spillage of powder came from powder granules splashing from pan (When I used a case to catch the powder charge, I did not notice spillage so I will verify this).


This is how the inside of measure looked after test #3 with No. 2. Drum body looked clean with cone surface that appeared to have black smear mark (Likely from powder coating/granule smear).

DLXPPMtest3a.jpg

The black smear mark on cone came off readily when I wiped with paper towel.

DLXPPMtest3.jpg

I took a closer look inside the drum and noticed some powder granules stuck to drum body above drop tube. This was likely from factory solvent/oil that seeped through the threads of the drop tube.

DLXPPMtest3b.jpg

I used a Q-tip to clean the area and wiped dry with paper towel.

DLXPPMtest3c.jpg

Clean and dry for test #4 with H335.

DLXPPMtest3ledge.jpg
 
Last edited:
Howa 9700 said:
Can you tell if the leaks are thru the drum or from the drop tube?
Click to expand...
Houston, we have a problem ...

I have been using the pan from Ohaus 10-10 beam scale to catch the powder charge drops from the drop tube to simplify weighing and looks like spillage of powder came mostly from powder granules splashing from pan (When I used a case to catch the H335 powder charge, I did not notice spillage).

Sooooooo ... I now have to repeat W231/HP-38, Titegroup and No 2 drops. :( So I shortened a medicine bottle to catch the powder drop without the splash spillage.

But there's more.

With the copy paper under the measure, when I tapped the measure, some H335 granules dropped down from drop tube into the medicine bottle (Not the copy paper) that's detectable by the scale so this is something that I need to verify further after the measure's drum/wiper is "conditioned".

So for test #4 with H335, I will use shortened medicine bottle and not touch/tap the measure.
 
NOTE: Due to reasons mentioned on post #42, initial W231/HP-38, Titegroup and No. 2 will be redone - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ct-powder-measure.922834/page-2#post-12712364

W231/HP-38 50 drops - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/50-drops-lee-deluxe-perfect-powder-measure.922834/

Titegroup 50 drops - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-perfect-powder-measure.922834/#post-12711491

No. 2 50 drops - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ct-powder-measure.922834/page-2#post-12711707

LiveLife said:
12Bravo20 said:
interested in seeing how H335 does.
Click to expand...
H335 is next powder to test after measure disassembly and clean up
Click to expand...
Powder measure was disassembled for inspection and wiped clean with paper towel then reassembled with light pressure on the wing nut so there was almost no resistance to lever movement. Brand new factory 1 lb container of H335 was screwed to the red bottle adapter directly and 30 charges were dropped before starting 50 charge drops with target of 25.00 gr (NOTE: Lever down-up-down was used with slight pause around 1 second in up position to fill powder):

= NOTE: Shortened medicine bottle was used to catch the powder charge drops and measure was not "tapped" after the drop =
  1. 25.00 gr
  2. 25.00 gr
  3. 25.00 gr
  4. 25.00 gr
  5. 24.98 gr
  6. 25.02 gr
  7. 25.08 gr
  8. 24.98 gr
  9. 24.98 gr
  10. 25.06 gr
  11. 25.08 gr
  12. 25.02 gr
  13. 25.08 gr
  14. 25.06 gr
  15. 25.02 gr
  16. 25.08 gr
  17. 25.04 gr
  18. 25.06 gr
  19. 25.04 gr
  20. 24.98 gr
  21. 25.02 gr
  22. 25.04 gr
  23. 25.02 gr
  24. 25.04 gr
  25. 25.04 gr
  26. 25.02 gr
  27. 25.04 gr
  28. 25.02 gr
  29. 25.04 gr
  30. 25.04 gr
  31. 25.02 gr
  32. 25.00 gr
  33. 25.04 gr
  34. 25.10 gr
  35. 25.04 gr
  36. 25.06 gr
  37. 25.08 gr
  38. 25.04 gr
  39. 25.06 gr
  40. 25.04 gr
  41. 25.08 gr
  42. 25.08 gr
  43. 25.10 gr
  44. 25.08 gr
  45. 25.10 gr
  46. 25.14 gr
  47. 25.08 gr
  48. 25.10 gr
  49. 25.10 gr
  50. 25.08 gr
Curious about increase in charge weight after #45, decided to continue metering additional charges:
  1. 25.14 gr
  2. 25.06 gr
  3. 25.16 gr
  4. 25.10 gr
  5. 25.18 gr
Perplexed, when I checked the wing nut, I found the tension fairly light and after tightening with light resistance, following charges were dropped:
  1. 25.00 gr
  2. 25.02 gr
  3. 25.00 gr
  4. 25.00 gr
  5. 25.06 gr
  6. 25.00 gr
  7. 25.08 gr
  8. 25.04 gr
  9. 25.02 gr
  10. 25.04 gr
  11. 25.08 gr
  12. 25.04 gr
  13. 25.04 gr
  14. 25.06 gr
  15. 25.04 gr
  16. 25.04 gr
  17. 25.02 gr
  18. 25.08 gr
  19. 25.08 gr
  20. 25.06 gr
  21. 25.06 gr
  22. 25.08 gr
  23. 25.06 gr
  24. 25.10 gr
  25. 25.10 gr (Tightened wing nut a bit more)
  26. 25.04 gr
  27. 25.04 gr
  28. 25.06 gr
  29. 25.08 gr
  30. 25.08 gr
  31. 25.08 gr
  32. 25.08 gr
  33. 25.10 gr
  34. 25.12 gr
  35. 25.10 gr

I then switched the digital scale from AWS Gemini-20 to Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 and verified with check weights after calibration:
  1. 25.05 gr
  2. 25.07 gr
  3. 25.09 gr
  4. 25.05 gr
  5. 25.12 gr
  6. 25.05 gr
  7. 25.05 gr
  8. 25.09 gr
  9. 25.09 gr
  10. 25.12 gr
  11. 25.08 gr
  12. 25.09 gr
  13. 25.13 gr
  14. 25.07 gr
  15. 25.07 gr
  16. 25.07 gr
  17. 25.11 gr
  18. 25.10 gr
  19. 25.09 gr
  20. 25.10 gr
  21. 25.09 gr
  22. 25.05 gr
  23. 25.18 gr
  24. 25.17 gr
  25. 25.10 gr
  26. 25.14 gr
  27. 25.09 gr
  28. 25.14 gr
  29. 25.13 gr
  30. 25.16 gr
  31. 25.10 gr
  32. 25.12 gr
  33. 25.12 gr
  34. 25.13 gr
  35. 25.12 gr
  36. 25.15 gr
  37. 25.12 gr
  38. 25.11 gr
  39. 25.11 gr
  40. 25.10 gr
  41. 25.17 gr
  42. 25.14 gr
  43. 25.13 gr
  44. 25.13 gr
  45. 25.12 gr
  46. 25.13 gr
  47. 25.12 gr
  48. 25.11 gr
  49. 25.11 gr
  50. 25.09 gr

Breakdown of charges:
  • < Dinner time ... Will do that afterwards and make sense of the readings >
 
Blue68f100 said:
Real world results... Got to like it.
Click to expand...
Definitely "real world" results ... :D

And I am glad that I increased sample size to 50 drops for other powders and then to 140 drops for H335 to perhaps witness something inherent. ;)

Blue68f100 said:
As far as increase in charge weight... ???? Powder getting compacted and settling ?? Every thing tight???? Hanging up somewhere?
Click to expand...
I got "volunteered" to help wife's friend after dinner (No, this was not planned) so didn't get to do any follow-up checking or investigation as to what I saw.

I do have some theories as to what happened with the weight fluctuation using two "known accurate" digital scales with higher resolutions and the fact that weight fluctuation occurred with both scales in similar manner was a confirmation of my theories.

But it's late (Almost midnight) and I am pooped from helping wife's friend so I will resume powder charge drop verification tomorrow starting with redoing 50 drops with W231/HP-38.
 
LiveLife said:
My primary contact with Lee Precision is Calvin Katzfey who reached out to me to beta test products (Starting with bullet feed die and rotary magazine) after I pre-ordered Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 kit. When I spoke to Calvin on the phone, I immediately took the opportunity to request Lee Precision consider doing R&D for stepped "M" style powder through expander and Calvin took the request directly to John Lee who immediately agreed to start the R&D and now decision has been made to replace all powder through expanders with "square seating" expander which I beta tested also (Official announcement is forthcoming) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...epped-m-style-powder-through-expander.916523/

I emailed my first 50 drop W231/HP-38 findings to Calvin last night and got this reply this morning indicating consistency of drops will improve as the drum "seasons":

Good morning,​
​
... Not too bad, good feedback and useful information ... I would not be surprised to see the results get better as the drum continues to be conditioned and break in. We often see the best results after a pound has been ran through any powder measure ...​
​
Calvin Katzfey​
Lee Precision​
​
Based on the Titegroup results, looks like the drum/wiper is indeed being conditioned and breaking in. I plan on testing other powders (No 2, H335, etc.) and will repeat W231/HP-38 to see if conditioned/broken-in drum improves metering.
Click to expand...
Very off topic.

Seeing as you are so well known at Lee, think you can convince them to keep supporting the Loadmaster for a few more years? Apparently they stopped making carriers for the loadmaster and no plan to continue supporting it. Seems like a way to force users to upgrade to the new progressive presses.
 
What improvements have been made to the "NEW Deluxe PPM since 2015?

New Lee Classic Powder Measure

Has anyone used the new Lee Classic Powder Measure? http://leeprecision.com/classic-powder-measure.html It has machined cast iron body, brass drum with true micrometer and elastomer wiper that won't cut powder. It's around $75
www.thehighroad.org

new product: lee classic powder measure

so lee is coming out with a high end powder measure. Looks interesting, especially if it actually hits market closer to 50 than 100 bucks. http://leeprecision.com/classic-powder-measure.html I don't know that it will be any better than anybody else's, but I'm always up for more competition and...
www.thehighroad.org
www.youtube.com

Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure

A look at the Lee Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure and the Quick Change Drum Set.Amazon affiliate linksPowder Measure: https://amzn.to/3F4KMSVQuick Change Drum ...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Watched the youtube video and still believe I will stay with the Auto Drum. As the video show with the Auto Drum there is infinite adjustment.
 
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