50-year-old Dallas woman shoots and kills home burglar

[ClickClickD'oh]

Or was she stopping a felony in progress?

Not if they were departing.

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

So yes, you can use lethal force to prevent the escape of a person who has committed a burglary

And now to put on my Texas CHL/NRA/Private Security instructor hat... Don't ever try using that justification. Seriously, don't. In fact, just pretend that whole section of the law doesn't exist. Section (3)(A) pretty much kills any chance of using that defense successfully if you have homeowners insurance.

However, since one of the goblins had a gun, she wasn't defending property, she was defending life. Different story.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I didn't notice any reference to her haveing a cell phone - and it seems armed criminals 'pressed an attack' both have an influence in this sitation. could likely be just a matter of timeing. all the perps had outstanding warrants - bet'cha they are 'bangers' or dopers.
now if she will be good enuff to contact her state and congress reps to let them know how valuable her 2nd amend rights are to her we'll all benefit again.

 

[Sam1911]

And now to put on my Texas CHL/NRA/Private Security instructor hat... Don't ever try using that justification. Seriously, don't. In fact, just pretend that whole section of the law doesn't exist. Section (3)(A) pretty much kills any chance of using that defense successfully if you have homeowners insurance.

It would be most helpful if you'd repeat that line about once every month when someone chimes in about how, "Weeeell, y'all aught to move down here to Texas 'cause we can jist SHOOT EM!"

As Kleanbore has pointed out many, many times, there is a grave danger in reading one bit of black-letter law and believing that you have a green light to shoot anyone, ever, under any circumstances. The goal should always be to avoid having to use violence, and then to be grateful for the protections the law may afford if you have no other choice but to do so.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by ClickClickD'oh: So yes, you can use lethal force to prevent the escape of a person who has committed a burglary.

Well, you can, but plan on serving time.

You may not lawfully use deadly force simply to prevent the escape of a burglar.

One may use deadly force immediately after a burglary to prevent the burglar from escaping with your property, and only if there is no other safe way to do so, and only in Texas.

However, since one of the goblins had a gun, she wasn't defending property, she was defending life. Different story.

That will have to be her defense. The question will be one of evidence of immediate necessity. At least there was no requirement for retreat.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Ref. ADEE...

We've been talking about ADEE here in ST&T for several years - back to 2006 as far as I can find, when this thread appeared: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231665

On the main page of the ST&T forum there's a 'button' on the top right hand side of the green 'Thread' bar saying SEARCH THIS FORUM, for anyone who wants to see other discussions here where ADEE has featured.

Or, just start with the lecture notes at http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2006/02_StudyDay.htm

 

[230RN]

"Or was she stopping a felony in progress?"

Good point, FuzzyBunny.

My first reaction in the situation as described, would have been to drive away (noting plate numbers of any strange vehicles), but I wasn't there and don't know what else I might have done given some specific circumstances. Some property has value far beyond mere dollars.

The case will be taken to a grand jury, which is standard procedure after a fatal shooting, according to the article.

No-billed, hopefully. I guess a lot of that depends on the prosecutor's attitude toward the situation; aggressive versus a "ho-hum" presentation of the case.

From one of the comments, regarding the deceased:

"I knew Larry personally and besides his terrible decisions he made he was still a good person."

Egad.

Terry, 230RN

 

[Apachedriver]

It would be most helpful if you'd repeat that line about once every month when someone chimes in about how, "Weeeell, y'all aught to move down here to Texas 'cause we can jist SHOOT EM!"

You left out the best part of that phrase..."and if drop 'em outside yer house, be shur to drag the body back in before ya call the Sheriff."

I've heard people actually advise that down here and it makes me cringe.

I don't have any pity for a person that gets shot/killed and earned it through their life-threatening actions. But there is a difference between what some folks think reality should be and what reality actually is when you have to answer up to someone else's peers.

Heck, even in combat we have to be prepared to answer for our actions, and often do.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...as-woman-shoots-kills-burglar-at-her-home.ece

Here is a more thorough article on the event. I liked the description of the items in her yard. Beverly Valentine-Creeks (aka Beverly Valentine) seems to be a complex individual with an arrest in 2011 for theft $>20. I correlated her information using various online sources including the news article, age reference, physical description, name use in the white pages (which correlated with the street block and shortened aka name).

 

[Deaf Smith]

But was she convicted of anything? If a felony she could not even own a gun.

Deaf

 

[HOWARD J]

I really don't worry about coming home to criminals running out of the house because I have a monitored burglar alarms on house & garage but if I did come home to 3 guys running out of the house --- I would not start a gun fight because if I killed one or more of them I would have to stand before a grand jury in Wayne county, MI--I would be sent to trial & spend the rest of my life in prison for murder. No further comment.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Theft over $20 is a misdemeanor.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

I applaud the lady for bringing swift justice to the punks, but she need to learn to let the pros do their job. If they were coming out, she was within her rights to shoot and protect her property.

Thanks for the news, Deaf. That's a familiar name from some other forum.

 

[Kleanbore]

{Posted by Harley Rider 55: I applaud the lady for bringing swift justice to the punks, but she need to learn to let the pros do their job.

"Justice" is not a lawful use of deadly force, anywhere.

If they were coming out, she was within her rights to shoot and protect her property.

Only if they were actually taking tangible, moveable property.*

This one falls into the category of self defense.

These are a few things that people really, really need to learn.

*And lest there be any confusion, that's only permissible in Texas, and only if certain conditions are met.