500 S&W bullets still slip .010 after 4 rounds fired - die too big?

[IMtheNRA]

I recently reloaded my stash of 500 S&W brass, and I am still having a problem with bullet slip. I'm using Hornady brass - once fired as well as brand new brass. I use a Hornady 4-die set, and Sierra 400 gr JSP bullets.

The powder charge is medium-light - nothing crazy. 36 grains of H-110.

After four rounds fired, the fifth cartridge in the cylinder shows a slip of about 0.010 of an inch. The seating die applies as much roll crimp as possible - if I turn it in any more, the case will buckle. The fourth die, Hornady's 500 S&W taper crimp die is maxed out as well - if I turn it in any more, the crimped case mouth sort of "flows" into the bullet cannelure.

Not that max crimp is a good solution anyway - I think neck tension is supposed to hold the bullet.

Does it sound like I have a slightly oversized re-sizing die and I should just send it back to Hornady?

 

[MEHavey]

Neck tension will never hold a 500S&W against recoil.

If all you are getting is ten thousandths OAL change by the 5th cylinder, call that success.

 

[snuffy]

You are correct that crimp is not responsible alone for controlling bullet slip during recoil. A combination of a properly sized case and the correct diameter of the expander provide for neck tension. If the FL sizer is NOT sizing the case enough, then the neck tension will be too little. If the expander is too big, the neck tension will be too little. The trick is to identify which one is the culprit.

Brass neck thickness also plays into that. The dies may be correct for thicker cases, but not for thinner ones.

It should only take a micrometer on the spud that does the expanding/belling in die #2 to tell you if it is the problem. It should be like .498 or so, to leave the inside of the neck with about .003 less than bullet diameter. A lot depends on brass spring-back.

If you have the means to measure the inside of the case both before and after expanding,(after FL sizing), that would help.

This all assumes the bullets are right at .501.

 

[Bula]

So you roll crimp at seating, then taper crimp? I don't reload for the .500, but I'd suggest doing one or the other. Do you notice that the taper crimp is flattening out your roll crimp?

 

[nofishbob]

So you roll crimp at seating, then taper crimp? I don't reload for the .500, but I'd suggest doing one or the other. Do you notice that the taper crimp is flattening out your roll crimp?

Surprisingly, when I asked Hornady about this, I was told to roll crimp with the seater die, and then "drive the roll crimp in" with the taper crimp.

In my 10.5" (heavy) S&W, I have had no bullet jump up to the maximum loads with 350 grain Hornady bullets and Starline brass

For light loads, I just lightly taper crimp with no roll crimp at all. This works fine and I believe I am extending the brass life.

Good luck!

Bob

 

[gamestalker]

The first time i experienced jump was the last time. It was crimping so deep, that as you said, the crimp was flowing down into the canelure of the bullet. This wasn't effective in holding the bullet down. I backed my die body off some so that the case mouth was pushed with almost a 90 gegree angle into the canelure and have not had any bullet jump since.

 

[popper]

Both roll and taper crimp should get the bras to FLOW into the ring. It should leave a shiny ring on the neck edge. The edge of the neck is in the middle of the ring when the bullet is seated?
I'm assuming the slip is to a longer OAL. Also what snuffy says.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I reload for the 500. I make sure that my brass is all the same length, midway between trim-to length and maximum length. I seat all the bullets then perform a seperate operation to crimp them with a firm roll crimp. I crimp into the cannelure and about 20% of the cannelure is showing at the top of the case mouth, which puts the crimped radius right about over the bottom edge of the cannelure nicely.

I press about halfway, lower the ram, then turn the completed cartridge 180 degrees and finish the firm crimp.

Do I need to do all this?
Maybe, maybe not, however since it is all part of reloading, I am having fun, even if I am a bit anal at times.

 

[Steve Koski]

I'M,

I've put together about 1000 .500 Mag rounds. I use the Lee FCD (rifle/collet type, not the pistol type). Mail Lee a dummy round and they'll mail you a FCD to match.

To be honest, I've never fired a few rounds then measured for bullet pull. So my method might not be any different/better than yours. I've never noticed any pull, but I doubt I would notice .010".

Take care,

Koski

 

[918v]

I would not worry about that much mmovement.

 

[Hunt480]

I use the Redding Profile crimp die for the 500, it has a taper crimp with a roll crimp at the end. Its the best of both worlds. I have shot some nuclear loads from my 500 and I have actually checked for bullet jump because of the extreme recoil of these hot heavy loads and I have yet to have a problem. Its the best crimp die I have ever used. I like this one so much I bought one for the 475 Linebaugh too.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I was able to get a picture of my load using Hornady 350g XTP HP bullets with CBC (Magtech) brass.

I am mainly showing the roll crimp which I perform - as a dedicated last step after all the bullets are seated into the casings.

This is a real barn-burner load and, with my 4" barrel, the recoil is extreme, however I have yet to have any bullet jump at all!

Belled mouth casing on left in comparison to the reloaded round on the right.

The Hornady XTP-HP bullet to the right is lined up exactly by the cannelures so you can see exactly how a radius is put on the case mouth essentially using the bottom edge of cannelure as the approximate center portion of the roll-crimp radius.

In having the cannelure covered approximately 80% (and approximately 20% remaining visible) in my opinion, gives enough brass plenty of room for the roll crimp. Notice how the mouth on the left case is belled only enough to enable the beginning of seating of the bullet without shaving any copper (or lead, in the case of lead bullets).

This is my own technique which I have developed since my start of reloading around 1980 (over 30 years).

Another belled casing and an XTP-HP are there on the right simply to illustrate the comparative sizes of components from another angle.