;58 Remington charges?

[ZVP]

what powder charge do you use in your '58 BP revolver?
I have tried several charges of Pyrodex in my two '58's
""Real" Black Powder is hard to locate on my section of California's Central Valley). My Target load is 30 gr with a wad and a.452 Swaged lead ball, My "Power" load is 35 gr of Pyrodex with a felt lubed wad ignited with the same #11 Remington Cap,
I have read of powder charges as high as 45 gr of Pyrodex. Yea the cykinder has the volume to handle such a charge but it seems to me that a near 100 ft lb advantge might not be worth it considering thehigher pressures and recoil of the heavy chrge
I know that the origonal .45 BP cartrige load for a Colt Peacemaker got complaints from the troops so much that the Army reduced the charge to 35 gr of BP. Seems the heavier charges generated heavier recoil with no gain in accuracy.
I wonder if the Remington C&B might generate the same conditions?
if you just hurridly charge the cylinder from a flask, you could easilly get 40 or more gr of Black Powder in it.
I don't recommend flask to cylinder charging1 It is FAR safer to use a powder measure in order to keep the large volume of powder frpm contacting a cylinder with possibly an ember burnng or just an overheated sylinder, I always weigh each chambers charge, Yes it;s slower but SAFER!
So what might your favorite Remington '58 powder charges be?
I am always interested in the preformane of meduim powder charges because some guns can get good accuracy from meduim charges!
Thanks for reading and please reply.
BPDave

 

[BowerR64]

I do things the easy and cheap way i have all the extra junk but all that stuff IMO just messes me up. When i tried getting super accurate and using fillers and extra tools it made me skip things and thats when i started having issues.

Once i skipped all the extra steps i FINALLY started hitting where i pointed the gun. After that i just focused on other parts.

I chose 19g and 26g why? 2 reasons, 1 a 40 S&W shell is short and fat and fits into the powder can easier then a 357 mag shell. I chose 26g because the 45ACP shell is short and fat and also fits easier into the powder can easier the a 44 shell.

I do the same thing when i change from 2F to 3F

3F i use the 19g load = 40 S&W shell, 2F i use the 26g 45ACP shell. I notice that using the 2F seems to be the most accurate over the 3F and i dont notice much difference in kick or recoil between 19g 3F or 26g 2F they both seem about the same.

If i shoot black powder goex i use 26g 3F, swiss 19g 3F (its hotter like T7 so i back the swiss down a little) the 3F goex acts alot like the 2F T7 it feels slightly under powered so i use the large one.

Are you confused yet? in the past 2-3 months ive shot about 24 or shots a day 2-3 times a week. I finally got a decent system down now im just adjusting all my guns to these cheapskate loads i shoot. lol

I asked my dad what he shot when i started shooting mine and he said 30g but i tried 30g and its WAY to hot for me. I just shoot paper so i really dont need to waste all that extra powder. IMO these loads kick about like a 38 or a 9mm i dont care for anything more powerful

I havnt shot pyrodex 3F but i suspect its about the same as the 2F pyrodex. The pyrodex 2F i used a 26g scoop so if i used the 3F ide use the 19g 40 shell

what ive noticed is lately ive been scooping with the shell and i dont tap it i use a buisness card and level it off. I noticed if i start tapping the shell it starts to pack the powder and i get loads that arnt the same from scoop to scoop. so i stopped tapping the scoops.

I use those precharge tubes at the range, those yellow tube with the balls on the top. This way i can measure and take my time at home and leave all that extra junk at home. I dont take any funnels, scoops, powder cans nothing just my lube, caps and the tools i will need incase i dry ball or get a cap jammed.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Be careful with those brass frames. Too many 30 grain loads stretched the frame of my old Navy Arms brass framed 44 caliber Navy that I bought in 1968. Nobody was warning us about using lighter loads in brass framed guns back then.

 

[BullSlinger]

Loads

Welcome to Cap & Ball. I have found that in most cases a lighter load is much more accurate as Bower said. Heavier is not better most of the time.
You stated you will be shooting subs due to them being available where you live. I mostly shoot subs and find they work fine for me.
I have found that starting with a load of 17gr 3F, targets at 15 to 20 yards works well for accuracy. Work up from there. My 44 cal repos do not shoot well with loads hotter than 25gr. Only revolver I have that is accurate with 30gr loads is my Rugar Old Army.

 

[BowerR64]

Im going to get a powder scale for christmas and then ill get a better idea what my loads actually are.

2F is so much more fluffy then 3F so im sure its lighter then i think it is.

I got the figures for how many grains each shell holds i think from black measurements.

 

[vagunmonkey]

I have found 14g of Goex 4F to be my most accurate load at 25yds. 17g of Swiss 3F is second followed closely by 20g of Goex 3F. I also use filler with all loads.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Repro (Hege Army Match Maximum): 25 yd/meter load is 12.5 grains Swiss 3F/Cream of Wheat filler, .45 RB. That load has won four N-SSA revolver aggregates, 2 Pacific Zone Championships. 50 yd/meter is 15 grains. Shot a 92-2X with that one.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Im going to get a powder scale for christmas and then ill get a better idea what my loads actually are.

2F is so much more fluffy then 3F so im sure its lighter then i think it is.

I got the figures for how many grains each shell holds i think from black measurements.

Howdy Again

Be aware that unlike Smokeless powders, different brands of Black Powder weigh different amounts. In other words, 30 grains of Goex FFg will take up a different volume than 30 grains of Schuetzen will. For instance, I usually load my 45 Colt loads with 2.2 CC of FFg Black Powder. The chart I keep in my notebook says that 2.2 CC of FFg Goex weighs about 34.5 grains, 2.2 CC of Schuetzen weighs about 33 grains. If you are using a chart that says how many grains a particular shell will hold, keep in mind that the figure listed is going to be a rough figure because different powders will weigh different amounts. The same with the sliding chart that comes with a Lee dipper set, I find it is relatively inaccurate.

I am not going to give you the old saw that Black Powder should be measured by volume and not by weight, weighing charges is perfectly valid. Just bear in mind that if you use a different brand of powder, it will weigh a slightly different amount.

 

[BowerR64]

I have found 14g of Goex 4F to be my most accurate load at 25yds. 17g of Swiss 3F is second followed closely by 20g of Goex 3F. I also use filler with all loads.

Interesting, i wonder if im having such good luck with 2F because of how it packs.

I notice when i use the 45acp shell with 2F i bottom out the ram rod. When i push the ball down. I can do this with every chamber

I wonder when people use fillers if this isnt the reason why they have such good luck with the fillers because it makes packing more consistant.

 

[vagunmonkey]

Interesting, i wonder if im having such good luck with 2F because of how it packs.

I notice when i use the 45acp shell with 2F i bottom out the ram rod. When i push the ball down. I can do this with every chamber

I wonder when people use fillers if this isnt the reason why they have such good luck with the fillers because it makes packing more consistant.

I think that has a lot to do with it. I load to the same depth, with the same pressure for each load.

Keeping everything consistent eliminates the variables and allows me to work on my skills.

 

[BowerR64]

Howdy Again

Be aware that unlike Smokeless powders, different brands of Black Powder weigh different amounts. In other words, 30 grains of Goex FFg will take up a different volume than 30 grains of Schuetzen will. For instance, I usually load my 45 Colt loads with 2.2 CC of FFg Black Powder. The chart I keep in my notebook says that 2.2 CC of FFg Goex weighs about 34.5 grains, 2.2 CC of Schuetzen weighs about 33 grains. If you are using a chart that says how many grains a particular shell will hold, keep in mind that the figure listed is going to be a rough figure because different powders will weigh different amounts. The same with the sliding chart that comes with a Lee dipper set, I find it is relatively inaccurate.

I am not going to give you the old saw that Black Powder should be measured by volume and not by weight, weighing charges is perfectly valid. Just bear in mind that if you use a different brand of powder, it will weigh a slightly different amount.

Right i understand that but this is a revolver. Im not going to weigh it then try and stuff a charge in where the ball will barley fit in.

Im going to weigh what a level scoop of each powder and each shell to find out what im actually shooting of each.

Ive only used one true accurate load in my guns 30g of pyrodex in a pellet. I can tell you this none of my loads ive ever shot using even a level 357 mag scoop wich is the largest load of any loose powder ive shot has never been as strong as those 30g pellets not even close.

The level 357 mag scoop of 3F T7 was pretty close but i found the large loads to be wasted shooting paper

 

[44 Dave]

Interesting, i wonder if im having such good luck with 2F because of how it packs.

I notice when i use the 45acp shell with 2F i bottom out the ram rod. When i push the ball down. I can do this with every chamber

I wonder when people use fillers if this isnt the reason why they have such good luck with the fillers because it makes packing more consistant.

Fillers?
Have herd fillers are used to keep the ball near the barrel so it is moving slower when it starts into the refiling.
I have found 18gr. + my homemade wad is the minimum for the ram on my 1860 and NMA, mostly shoot 28 g.r that my favorite flask throws.
I have though about using fillers but for ringing steel and other fun targets haven't gone to the trouble.

 

[BowerR64]

Ive heard both, ive read people say to get the ball up near the top and ive read them say because the fillers are fluffy and they pack consistantly.

I tried fillers and wads and they were more work then they were worth.

My groups were better without wads or fillers and it saves me a step and an extra thing i have to take, measure and buy.

I wanted the wads to work just because it seems to make everything cleaner, it lubes the chamber as its pushed in before the ball but over and over when i shot with and without in the same day using everything the same the groups were tighter using just powder and a ball and thats it.

 

[RaceM]

I've been staying with 15gr of 3F 777, wonder wad, and ball. Seems to work well in both my Remmie and the Colt clone.